Am I harming my baby?

My baby cried for 20 minutes plus when she was meant to be going to sleep. And that lasted years, with a whole lot of sleep deprivation for both of us. She is now 17 and sitting 4 A levels so I don’t think it did her any harm.

your baby will be fine.

This is completely untrue. No country has banned it, and I can’t find any evidence that any country is considering banning it. Also, this isn’t what the OP is doing.

I think they're banning literature/advice in Denmark, but obviously won't be policing every home.

I sleep trained at 14m, and it was as if he'd been waiting to be shown what to do. He did a bit of standing up and calling after us (I wouldn't even call it upset crying, but calling out as if to say, "hey, this is new").

Then put him down each return. He was alone a total of 12m the first night and was asleep in 5m the second night. He still wakes if he really needs us, and we monitor him more closely if he's unwell.

I hardly think that 17m of our leaving him by himself is going to rewire the other 14 months of attentive care he'd had at that point. The other night he had a nightmare and called for us. Tonight he told Daddy to stop cuddling him because he wanted his bed. So the "they know noone is coming" bit is tosh as far as gentle methods are concerned IMO.

What countries? How does that even work? What if baby cries for 3 minutes whilst you’re going to the toilet or tending to another DC? Not really relevant to OP who has done controlled crying, which is a totally different thing, but I’m honestly curious. And isn’t that they don’t learn to self soothe they learn no one is coming claim is from a study of severely neglected children in soviet era Romanian orphanages? Super sad but you can’t be applying it to normal kids from normal loving homes.

4 minutes? Mine cries for longer than that sometimes when they don't get their own way. I don't think they're traumatized so I doubt they're traumatized just because they happen to be in bed.

It really depends on the baby and it sounds as though controlled crying works for your OP.

I sleep trained my children. They’re 21 and 19, very confident young adults and we are extremely close.

You’ve done the controlled crying/Ferber method and it’s worked. No need for the sleep consultant who doesn’t sound like she aligns with you anyway. Night 3 will probably 2-3 minutes and then night 4 will likely be nothing. Job well done. Don’t go backwards and undo it.

Well, I will get called the worst mother in the world but just let him cry. Sleep deprivation is a torture technique for a reason.

I would follow your normal routine, put them to bed and then that's it. None of this going back in nonsense, just leave them. Yes they will learn no one is coming, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. They learn it's bedtime.

It took three nights with my eldest and two with the youngest and we all got to sleep again.

And before you all climb in with claims of child abuse, they are both adults now and totally fine. In an ideal world they could have got the idea of sleeping themselves but that wasn't happening and I needed to sleep. Do whatever you have to do.

The OP isn't describing cry it out. You've just speed read and assumed.

Take from that what you will..

The only scientific evidence is this: cortisol will be released as soon as baby is upset, and we think it’s affect on the brain is harmful to development.

Good job that OP isn’t letting her baby cry it out then and is going back in every 3 minutes, so her baby can learn that someone is coming - in no more than 3 minutes time.

That's fine op, you know your baby. Under 1, mine couldn't self settle. Her cries when we tried were something else (never left more than 2 minutes consequently). When she was older, the cries changed and she learnt, but we still left for 10 min max. I'm sure you likewise were alert to the type of cry and provided plenty of reassurance.

It's fine, OP. And I say that as someone who tried sleep training and couldn't get it to work. DS just kept crying: if he'd stopped after 10 minutes it would have been worthwhile. That's not a long time for them to be upset and you are checking on them. Mine was upset for longer then that with his dad when he wanted me instead.

Can’t you do them both at the same time? I have a 5 yo 2 yo and 8 month. I do bedtimes solo.

first we all read stories in my big bed, then 5 yo gets tucked up (awake), then I put baby to bed. The I hold 2 yo hand til they fall asleep in their cot

Where? How could you ban it? How does that work practically? If I need a wee and leave baby in the cot while they cry, does that count? Why is that different fundamentally? If baby wakes and cries, how quickly do I have to respond before it becomes illegal?

Can they share a room for a while? Then you can be present for them both, in one room. This is what I did for my 2 for a while (about 6months in the end)!

If your baby was crying during the day would you leave them for that amount of time?

10 minutes is nothing! I did more with mine and they are both great / not damaged in the least. If this means you have a baby who can fall asleep by themselves absolutely keep going - it is transformational for your and your family's ability to function. I get the mum guilt but honestly this is so little crying in the context of how much babies cry that you shouldn't waste a single thought on it.

The cry it out method is being banned in some countries. Take from that what you will. I'm not going to preach but there's no way on this earth I would let my child cry themselves to sleep. They don't learn to self soothe, they just learn that noone is coming for them

How old is the older kid?

Try having a read through this article, it's got points from both sides of the arguments on sleep training based on results from research done over decades.
https://laleche.org.uk/letting-babies-cry-facts-behind-studies/

It's fine. Ten minutes isn't very long and four minutes is even less. Keep going.

The reality is that a loved dc with an otherwise responsive adult will be ok. It sounds like you've weighed the options.

I survived through co-sleeping and wearing my baby in a sling while managing the sleep of my toddler. I think we are all doing our best for our family overall, and it's hard for anyone outside to judge.

4 minutes is a very short period of time

I would continue with what you are doing for now. Reassess in a week.

Remember that lack of sleep is proven to be harmful.