School say they're monitoring lateness now and I feel sick about it

So this🖕

Who are the “everyone”

Does the everyone include those with one or two children

Not everyone has a baby a toddler and a young child to get ready on their own.

I thought the same about the shoes.
I was in a very similar situation a few years ago when mine were little.
I had a toddler who wasn't walking due to his disability and had to get my older two who were seven and four at the time to school and preschool.
Mornings were just crazy like OP describes and in all the mad rush to get them there on time I actually forgot to put the little one his shoes on.
I put him in his buggy and my middle child distracted me at the last minute.
It was only when we arrived at preschool to drop middle child off that I realised little one was sat in his buggy with just socks. Thankfully it was warm weather.
The nursery staff were horrified that I had forgotten to put his shoes on. They made me feel like a neglectful parent.

i sympathise with the stress of the school run days.
It does teach you and your kids some helpful life lessons that can be valuable about how to manage punctuality.
I was in your situation years ago ,struggling with mornings with young children and time keeping was often not quite achieved. The teacher pulled me and asked if i understood why being consistently on time was important both to my child and others eg: prolonging the settling time wasted all staff and childrens time, everyone else was making the effort to be on time, life lessons about being punctual etc. She asked if id be 5 minutes late for a bus ,train or plane if it could be avoided.
i thought about it and realised,i was struggling with prioritising in the mornings and didnt allocate sufficient time to do what was essential.
I streamlined my thinking and prioritised getting to school on time as if it were a train that would leave the station.
I didn't become a perfect timekeeper but was no longer consistently and avoidably late. For me it meant being better organised,allowing succient time,boundaries and letting go of perfectionism.
Don't beat yourself up about being pulled up on your poor time keeping ,use it to improve for you and your kids. It will get easier.

I quite agree. I said in my first two sentences, people who do this are rude, my husband is an example.

He is a lovely person in many ways. We've been married over 30 years and I don't regret it but I dislike that side of him. I find it embarrassing, hence my choice to make independent travel plans.

I might try leaving earlier and just accepting we’ll stand around near school for a bit if we get there too soon rather than always cutting it fine.

It's this - if you cut it fine there no ley way when things go wrong.

I had eldest who couldn't cope with being late so did it anyway.

Thing that help- everytime putting shoes and coats back immediately and book bag immediatey in same place - so they are there.

It was stressful for years with kids with similar age gaps - though later found they are ND which probaly didn't help - but it does get better and then suddenly it's all a well run machine.

They dislike lateness as it upsets some kids and it can cause classwide disruption and even a few minutes loses the settling down time. I don't think they are thinking anything beyond you are late and it's causing minor issue to that teacher.

This is your chance to speak with school, firstly with the class teacher but there might be another member of staff like a Family Engagement Officer who can help, and tell them that you're struggling in the mornings. They can help.

Being a bit late regularly often means those children are regulated when they start, it disrupts the start of the day, it can feel embarrassing and discombobulating for the child and gets the day off to a frantic start rather than a calm and happy one.

Please don't panic, this won't be about getting a Fixed Penalty Notice. This is about making sure that everything's OK at home and that you have support you need for your family.

At our school we know there are a whole range of reasons for children being late and for parents struggling with mornings. For you, some things that could be looked at are:

• is there a walking bus that your child can join?
• is there a neighbour parent or friend who can give your school age child a lift while your baby is young and breastfeeding and your toddler is being a challenge?

Sometimes persistent lateness is a symptom of something bigger going on at home and we at school want to know so we can help and use that context to better understand the challenges that child and family are facing. That's not your situation but we've had experiences where families haven't told school about some really serious and life changing things which have an impact on a parent who's just trying their best.

This conversation from the teacher isn't designed to single you out and make you feel bad, it's part of a much bigger picture and a need to address absence and lateness. Let them know your situation. They can help. They want the best for your child.

I know 10 minutes doesn't feel a lot but when you have a class with 10 children coming in 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 7 minutes late it gets hard. And those who come in hours late are completely different again.

I remember taking my older boy 5 minutes late to nursery at the school and being effusively apologetic and the staff went "we know you had a baby a week ago, this is fine, you're a superhero for just leaving the house". They know it happens, the poos, the feeding, especially with newborns, but if it's continuing to be a challenge, have a chat with a real person about where those challenges are and what you can do to address them.

Also, just mentally aiming to be at school 15 minutes early, getting your morning routines started 15 minutes earlier, the toddler shoe debates happening 15 minutes earlier etc - if you're always late, you'll be on time.

There are loads of hacks for making mornings easier - my mum used to lay out the breakfast table the night before and just get the milk and juice out of the fridge in the morning, do the packed lunches the night before, take the baby to school in their onesie etc. I wasn't as organised!

and I'll stick with my own experience of schools, and not disregard the posts from the ones who have been late as children and really suffer from it too, but thank you

I sympathise OP Getting kids out of the house is hard. But I was that always late kid and its made me completely the other way about making sure im on time for stuff. Theres been some good ideas in this thread. What I found helpful was: all stuff for everyone laid out the night before. Clothes, bags etc
Getting up earlier, my kids were frequently waking up in the night but setting my alarm and just getting up helped.
Baby changed and fed then in the pram or sling so i could sort the older one out.
Being engaged with the teacher so when things were tricky we had a positive relationship. This also supported the teacher to understand when I needed a bit of support.
Good luck OP, don’t beat yourself up. You can’t change the late that has happened but maybe writing down a timetable and having phone alarms and alexa alerts could help

If you read her updates, she can leave earlier, and her problem isn't time management or that her children are unusually difficult.

It's that she doesn't want to hang around in the playground before school and so is shooting for arriving there exactly on time.

Which is unrealistic with toddlers and babies, as we all know. I actually think it's unrealistic in life full stop. If I have a meeting and I know it will take me half an hour to get there, I don't leave exactly half an hour before the scheduled time.

And the OP has taken on board that she needs to leave earlier.

Thanks for your fevered opinion, I'll be sure to give it the respect it deserves.

I know you say you're bowing out but if you're still reading, could you afford breakfast club? That way you're not standing around and can drop and go early.

You can’t take one child late to school every day just because you have a baby. It is not fair on the teacher or other children. You need to get up earlier

I agree. My best friend at primary was the oldest of 4. Often late for I guess similar reasons to OP, Mum and Dad had too many kids too close together to cope. Goodness knows why they decided to have 4 when they could barely cope with 2.

She ended up crying in the toilets often as she was the one who got told off by our dragon teacher, not helpful as it wasn’t her fault! At least now they speak to parents instead!
She developed a kind of anxious OCD over timings and routines which still affects her to this day in her 50’s. And she’s passed on the compulsion to be always early to her kids, now young adults.

OP take all the advice and please do try your very best to get your oldest to school on time, they deserve this.

Then he is clearly talking shit. He's is choosing to be late to stuff, and IS being rude, so that's different.

My Ds is late to everything, regardless of what it is. I literally have to tell him to be ready 30 mins before he needs to be to get him to appt's on time, because i know, without fail, he will always be 10/15 minutes late to leave. it's part of his AuDHD and i have to plan for it.

I had 3 children and a long walk to school for one child and a bus that i could absolutely not miss. I dealt with it by dealing with one child at a time. My routine was to get the baby up, washed, fed and put outside in their pram to sleep, bus child up, washed, fed, dressed and sat at the table with something to do, then last one up and sorted. It is much easier to deal with one at a time.
Sit down with a cuppa, paper and pen and work out a timetable.

Considering several teachers and an AO have told OP that it's not that big of a deal, i think i'll stick with my own personal work life experience, thanks.

People who are persistently late are rude. My DH is an example. He is regularly 10/15 minutes late for work/trains/social engagements/restaurant bookings. It drives me mad. If he had been like this when we were dating it would be a deal breaker.

He argues that it's not his fault, that he has no sense of time but funnily enough he is never late for situations that won't tolerate it. He has never missed a tee off time on a golf course because he knows if he is late for that he will miss his slot. He always manages to turn up for the kick off at a football match and he is never late for meetings with his biggest client because the client would dump him and he'd be seriously out of pocket.

i quite often arrange to travel without him now so I can be punctual.

we are all late once in while. It's inevitable. IMO regular, persistent late running is a choice.

No, it is you that does not get it. I’ve acknowledged twice now that others will find it more challenging than others, that has been covered. But I’ve also said just because somethings are challenging does not mean it cannot be done. This is all down to a lack of willingness to put in the effort to change.

Stop pathetically pretending like you’re not in control of your own life and referring to us as animals like we know no better.

interesting, because people who WORK in schools will tell you that it HAS an impact.

You might deny it or ignore it, but you are wrong in pretending it's not true.

You are right OP, you do need to own it and it sounds like you’re ready to take accountability. It’s always so hard with young kids and lack of support, we’ve all been there. I’d be asking myself what can I control. Take some of the advice that’s been given regarding breakfasts, getting prepared the night before, using the buggy etc etc.

But above all the ONLY thing that’s going to work is if you allow extra time - so in your head plan to leave an extra 20 minutes earlier. Aim to get there 20 minutes before the gates open. That way you’re allowing time for inevitable meltdown moments. Change the clocks if necessary!

Yes you need to teach your kids about timekeeping and also provide that stability and structure for them, but also for yourself on the sense that strong morning routines help set us all up for the day better. Your toddler and baby won’t be at this stage forever. You can do this!

No one is denying that, don't get me wrong, it's just that it's not true people who are on time are all naturally "gifted" with a good sense of timing.

For some, it genuinely means sitting down, with the school schedule, a pen and paper and physically write down everything and going backward to figure out what time they do need to get everything down, up to the time they must get up.

A good half the class does at least a "practice" school drop off before school start to make sure they have the timing right - I know because it's a common joke on the class whatsap groups. People have steps, times when kids must be doing this or that to make sure they're on time.

Some parents might find it easy to just wing it, most don't.

the op directly said 3-7 minutes..

Which means if the school closes its doors at 8:55 she's still there before 9:05, so not disrupting anything.

i KNOW it has no impact. Again, i have worked in 5 different schools. Anyone saying otherwise is talking shit.

it's not fair on the teacher or the other children in the class. Someone repeatedly turning up late wastes class time. There will be kerfuffle and the need for repeated instructions. It's also not fair on the child. Instead of having time to run around in the playground with her friends before the whistle/bell goes, they are rushing in late every day.

You are demonstrating (without meaning to) that the needs of the younger two are more important than her need to arrive places promptly.

So as I said, it is a selfish attitude. You aren’t interested in the impact on the rest of the class as they aren’t your concern. You’re very wrong that it has no impact. You tell yourself it because you don’t want to think of yourself as selfish but I’m afraid you are.

You have no idea how late the OP is. “A few minutes” means 2 minutes to some and 20 to others.