Modern life doesn’t work

This.

If everyone made the same choices, where do you think the money to subsidise you comes from?

I have no problem with taxes supporting people who can’t work, or where all adults work full time and still can’t pay the bills (although I do think that 2x minimum wage ought to be enough - it isn’t in a lot of places and that is an issue), but if you can support yourself and your family then you should.

The figures are a few years old, but last time I checked there was £23 spent on residential housing for every £1 spent on productive investment in the UK. That's a major factor (alongside literacy, numeracy, crap infrastructure, and bone idleness) in why productivity is so poor here.

@Smoosha Im not disagreeing with you, just was making the point p/t workers are not a tiny % & they aren’t all mothers.

Agree with you OP. I retired just before the cost of living crisis hit and for about one year I had quite a nice life, a life which after over 40 years oc going out to work and struggling as a single parent paying for everything I felt I deserved. Nothing extravagant, just lunches out every now and then, trips to the theatre and cinema, visits to family in London. Then the bills rocketed and the other day out of inrerest I calculated how much my essential outgoings (gas, elec, council tax, water, broadband, insurance etc) have increased by, it was 129% ! God only knows how families and young people just starting out are managing. The cost of everything is insane. The state of the area, in fact the whole city I live in is so run down and depressing due to swingeing cuts as the council is broke. Guess we just have to hope that it will get better but as to how this will happen I have no idea.

I will be battered for this but the obsession of some to have kids at all costs. May be this is the answer of some SEN and other issues so prevalent in modern world today. Oldest fathers and mothers. Having one kid with problems and carrying on having more. I know people are having less kids but this is the younger mainly. These situations make life very difficult for parents and society. It will have consequences as well for the future.

I agree - I'm beginning to wonder if minimalism is the answer, because clearing out my house has made it SO much nicer. And with minimalism you basically don't buy anything other than essentials, so you accumulate more wealth too

Right but it’s not just mothers who want a decent work life balance is it? If EVERYONE started working part time there wouldn’t be enough people to fill all the jobs. If everyone wanted nice family friendly hours who is doing the horrible shifts? My point is, that the people often doing the part time jobs are supported and enabled by those doing full time jobs.

Forget those 'expectations'. Do what you can that suits you and doesn't stress you. That's far more important.

Totally agree op, people also buying crazy expensive cars two of them, on car payment plans etc

all these humans locking themselves into prison of debt

the answer though is to live more modestly

I have a cousin who literally gave up “modern life” in the West and is thriving. At the time we thought she was having a mental breakdown!

Shes 34 now. But when she was 28 she went to Punjab in India to shop for her wedding clothes. She was engaged to a white, English guy. But she ended up falling in love with a cousin’s friend and moved out there to a rural farm in the mountains.

Of all people you would not think she would ever live in such simple ways. She modelled as a teen, went to one of the best UK universities, partied, was constantly on holiday, dated etc.

She said she couldn’t spend another day staring at a spreadsheet! And then going home to cook then sleep.

Her life is so different now but she has never been happier. And when she came to visit this Summer she looked so glowy and healthy.

She spends her days volunteering at her local Sikh temple (in the free kitchen), teaching at a girls school, riding her horses and looking after her farm animals/street dogs. At the weekend her husband and her sons camp, fish etc. She has become much more religious and spiritual - now meditates. Shes got into a Sikh form of martial arts which keeps her in shape. she credits all the above for having cured her chronic anxiety.

She takes an afternoon nap on a hammock! They have a computer and TV. The tv is only watched at the weekends and the computer is used for school and video calling family.

And her sons. My gosh, they are just so well behaved and well adjusted. The 6 yo was teaching dh when we went fishing this Summer!

It’s taught me a lot. Progress and modernity is good but we need to not chase complexity and change just for the sake of it.

It’s funny how we all thought she needed to see a psychiatrist initially

I don't know why you are determined to interpret my posts in such a strange way. First you seen to be adamant that I have implied that the UK is comparable to Kenya when I have explicitly stated the opposite numerous times. Now you imply I don't understand nuance. There is always nuance. Wealth inequality is factually higher in the two countries you wanted to compare us to. Does that mean that this inequality is experienced consistently across all demographics across all measures? Of course it doesn't but if the overall measure suggests that wealth inequality is higher then these countries clearly have deep rooted issues with inequality too. Germany in particular is far more problematic than the UK when it comes to the distribution of assets.

I also can't believe you don't think economic inactivity isn't a major driver of poor productivity. This flies in the face of accepted economic theory.

It’s completely broken OP. I live a life of relative comfort (money-wise). But I have a chronic condition, a child with needs (and another child) and work full time. It makes me even more poorly. I hate it all and it’s so hard to change for women with the general shitshow of male support on offer.

Agree with all of this.
That thread is a reflection of the times; no value placed on SAHM / even PT parents anymore.
There’s been a huge swing on MN towards both parents working FT and 8-6 childcare being the norm. 20 years ago on here, it was unusual and there were regular debates where both ‘sides’ were argued equally.
Far more burned out parents these days.
Heinous house prices and COL have pushed us backwards it seems. There are no winners here. I feel for this generation of young parents and I fear for my (gen Z) daughters.

I have a spinal condition that means traditional work in a physical workplace is no longer possible. I worked in retail and factories for years; the Internet has been a godsend for me. I can work on my laptop, selling my designs on Etsy and other online platforms. The Internet has opened doors as a market place for many artists who wouldn't have got their work out there otherwise.

That's why I think comparisons to the past like that just don't work. We're not in the 50's. That's like people who actually did live in the 50s comparing their lives to the 1870's!! I don't think they did that somehow!

Quite!

I just bought a 2nd wardrobe off Ikea, I really am not a unicorn!

But a lot of things that are cheap now weren't cheap or available back then, and that is why.

Take going abroad. In the 70s my grandparents would fly over from mainland Europe, collect me and fly back with me to their house for the summer, then bring me back at the end. It was hideously expensive! I can fly to their country now for £30 with a cheap airline.

Clothes were expensive but now you can get a whole wardrobe cheaply online. (taking aside ethical considerations).

Furniture, again was expensive, but now we have places like Ikea, abundant second hand options where you can get stuff almost as good as new.

So yes of course people expect to be able to afford those things because they have never been as cheap or readily available. There's no reason people shouldn't be able to afford them.

That's why I think comparisons to the past like that just don't work. We're not in the 50's. That's like people who actually did live in the 50s comparing their lives to the 1870's!! I don't think they did that somehow!

Why do some posters think people today don’t also have 2nd hand furniture or hand me downs?

The unaffordability of housing is absolutely at the heart of the problem

its also feeds into the productivity issue. Too much income is eaten up by housing.

I think it was "Britain's Housing Crisis", but I saw a programme where with a recent study of the economics of housing. The academics doing the study were so shocked at the graph of how house-builders' profits had gone up that they went back and checked their figures because they were certain they must have made a mistake. Nope, no mistake: the profits of the house-builders had shot up stratospherically, and over a comparatively short time.

Turns out the house-builders have been prioritising profit over quantity. Even if they have everything available – land, planning permission, materials, labour – they choose not to actually build until house-prices in the area reach a level which will yield a massive profit.

They're not trying to cover their costs and make a modest profit: they're deliberately choking supply to raise prices to increase profit per unit.

Britain’s Housing Crisis: What Went Wrong?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001rkn5

I'm off sick with stress/anxiety and depression at the moment. I'm a single mum on good money, i feel like i just imploded after christmas and couldn't keep going anymore. But at somepoint i will have to go back to work. It's ridiculous the amount of expectations there are to keep going and i don't know how this can continue

The unaffordability of housing is absolutely at the heart of the problem.

It knocks on to everything.

For example, it's all very well telling the OP she individually should downsize, but the wages of the carers for the people with Learning Difficulties need to cover said carers' housing costs.

And if the wages don't, the carers need top ups from the taxpayer in order to rent... costing themselves and the OP again.

If you can’t afford a big house and don’t need a big house why did you buy it?? This has nothing to do with modern life

Agreed. I don't know any single woman who has gone back to work F/T after having kids. Most do two or three days a week.

This is so true. Even when I married in 1977, we had a hand-me-down cooker, no washing machine or fridge and Grandma's old sofa. New furniture wasn't even a consideration and neither was buying things on credit. I've already said that it is really difficult to go against the grain, but it is possible to do without many of the unnecessary things which seem to be considered essential nowadays. Stressing yourself out and damaging your health is a big price to pay for 'keeping up'.