Modern life doesn’t work

I agree that pensions are unsustainable when people retire at 66 and may live until 90 plus but that's another problem with ageing population.

Healthy life hasn't increased that much. We keep people alive longer with better medical care but that doesn't always mean they're fit and healthy enough to work. We'll end up with an even higher sickness benefit bill.

The gap between rich and poor will become even greater as society changes. Rich people will still retire younger with bigger private pension funds to fund it while poorer people work until they die.

I read an article the other day saying that a fifth of younger people are relying on inheritance for a pension. This is unsustainable as more and more of our elderly have to sell homes to pay for care. Dementia diagnoses are forecast to triple by 2050. One in 11 people over 65 and and one in 3 people over 90 have dementia and people are living longer after diagnosis.

Yeah- there's an interesting thought experiment which is basically "pick a year and place to be born at any point in history. Your sex, socio-economic status, race, religion and sexual orientation will be assigned at random" . Pretty much everyone picks to be born in the present time.

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times
We talk about a modern day mental health crisis but we need to consider what people just a few generations ago were experiencing. Two world wars in quick succession, having loved ones sent to fight with a high chance they would die, witnessing unimaginable horrors and facing a very real threat of invasion and what that would entail. I remember watching an interview with Prince Philip about his wartime experience and the interviewer asked about how he felt about it and how it impacted him mentally. He was incredulous! His focus was merely on surviving. Mental health is a luxury that they simply couldn't afford then. It would cost you your life and en masse cause us to lose the war.

Obviously this is horrendous and I can see why after the wars the welfare state was forged in a hope for a better time but I do think the hard times have been forgotten and most of us only can reference previous good times. We can't really even contemplate that things could be different and our sense of entitlement is through the roof. I think this is partly what is driving dissatisfaction and mental health problems. Our expectations aren't being met.

We now think life should be like it was in the latter half of the last century. We think we should work 40ish years and then be paid generous pensions for the next 30. We think we should have all our health, educational and housing needs met by the state irrespective of how much that may cost. We think that we should easily be able to afford basics like food and electricity and have fun money left over. This is exacerbated even further for young people who are used to being listened to, having their needs met and being respected in a way that we never were. Society is so child focused now. The contrast with this and the world of work and hard graft is stark. You don't call the shots and you aren't the focus of everything. You are the provider of effort and labour, not the consumer of it. It's very hard for lots of young people to get their heads around.

You go to work to earn money to buy things to make you feel better about the fact that you spend all your time working to earn money to buy things to make you feel better about the fact that you spend all your time working, etc.

I often think that when the great civilizational collapse comes, those Sentinel Islanders will turn out to have had the right idea all along. We are really no happier, even with all these things we think we can't live without.

Unfortunately a very small cabal of powerful people are getting incomprehensibly rich off this system, and there's plenty more people who'd love to join them. They are making sure this system persists even if it kills us all. They'll have their Hawaiian bunkers to retreat to.

I really hope that when they finally emerge, the Sentinel Islanders get them with their blowdarts.

That's true, but we'd also be going home essentially to a shed, at the mercy of the elements, with no access to the kind of enrichment and recreation that is now available even to those at the bottom of the financial system, at risk of dying from diseases that barely merit a day off work now, with very poor nutrition even in times of plenty and at constant risk of drought and famine if the weather wasn't in our favour in a given year. I agree that there are lots of problems with how we live now but they are not immediately existential in the way that they were for anyone not super rich 200 years ago or even 100 years ago.

Or buy big houses with big mortgages.

The big paradox is that our economy is largely built on the trading of widgets and services, however as the price of essentials climbs, fewer people can afford non-essentials, so more is produced and sold cheaply in "cheaper" coubtries to meet the volume required to make the money and it's descending into madness.

Also every aspect of trade has more and more links in the chain. Multiple taxes, licenses, booking fees, agents, affiliates, transport cosrs and associated taxes - it goes on and on, particularly in the online world. Now we also have environmental taxes. Don't get me wrong but the irony of simply asking for more and more money for the privilege of buying things that are causing huge environmental and health damage rather than insisting on changes at production level is madness.

It's always profit over genuine benefit.

I nearly blew a brain gasket after watching some over consumption critiques on YouTube. I started thinking about the sheer volume of "stuff". Containers full of Stanley cups, or whatever circling the globe until the trend collapses. These things are supposed to be sustainable things to reduce disposable cups. So why does anyone need a bloody collection of them???? And ACCESSORIES???

As a single person, two cats notwithstanding, I rarely go to a big supermarket. When I do, the sheer amount of choice boggles my mind. How many varieties of sodding Oreos do we need, given they are nutritionally dubious at best? And no, I'm not averse to the odd sweet treat myself, nor to I advocate an uneccesarily ascetic lifestyle - there has to be a happy medium.

And I've "educated myself" enough to know how and why, I still don't get it or think it's beyond the wit or wisdom of TPTB to change things. But they won't, because profit is the perpetual holy grail at all costs.

I read about Edward Bernays some years ago, the "father of modern marketing" who laid the foundations of consumerist brainwashing via psycholigical manipulation - and whose volume on the subject was much admired and leveraged by Goebbels for propoganda purposes in WW2. That was quite enlightening, and frankly terrifying.

Capitalism started on the premise of "solving problems" and giving convenience thanks to industrial progression. Then, when the market is saturated, it is quite acceptable to tell us we have problems we didn't know we had and worry us into buying the solutions. The commodification of childhood is a prime example.

And the thing is, it's very difficult to resist and be an outlier entirely, if you value being part if tribes or communities with shared values and implanted expectations.

A thread caught my eye the other day about a Mum who was effectively being ostracised by other private school Mums, and the consensus seemed to be simply disparity of wealth for extra curricular activities, despite having the fundamental commonality of the kids all being in private education. And it saddens me hugely.

I wish I had some answers, but my inner cynic thinks we're edging towards crash and burn before meaningful change can be achieved, and that is being staved off as ling as possible while we are "toughened up" by the erosion of compassion and community.

It’s a very middle class perspective to assume that people are struggling on the hamster wheel because they feel entitled to buy more stuff.
And please spare us the inevitable “ we had second hand furniture and cut our cloth” sanctimony!
The reality for the majority of the country is that they are doing insecure jobs, with no real
opportunity for progression, and often no real sense of achievement, to be able to scrape by, paying a huge % of income to pay for cramped housing they cant afford to upkeep.
I certainly never buy anything new for myself. I haven’t for years. Inherited or junk shop furniture, Facebook marketplace or Vinted.
I think a lot of things have improved on a wider societal level ( women’s freedom etc) but the way we are all locked in to keeping our heads above water for the basics while living increasingly atomised and lonely lives staring at too many screens and trying to sort problems via AI bots is incredibly alienating.
It’s also not true that we need everyone to work long hours. Weren’t we told that increasing automation would lead to more leisure? It absolutely could- often productivity has nothing to do with hours clocked. But the shareholders pocket any profits from increased productivity, keep us insecure and anxious and think up new ways to do that with targets, charters and KPIs.
As humans we need collective goals, time outside, time creating wonderful things and a sense of power over our own lives, and those things feel increasingly out of reach for many.

OP honestly though, if you can, sell the big house it’s not worth the stress.

Think about downsizing op. I grow up in a one-bedroom flat (my parents turned the living room in their bedroom) and it was just fine.

I agree. How has this come about that people feel they need loads of expensive objects and an expensive house to put them in and several cars to drive around in, more than they need fresh air and peace and time to talk? But I'm not sure that 'society tells us' is the best way of looking at it. These 'norms' and expectations develop in certain groups within our society and are bound to influence us, but we all have a choice to step back and decide to do things a bit differently.

@Caterpillar1 I know a few families who have moved back to EE countries.

Not in the country I live in. The UK is fucked.

dog ownership being a luxury that will become unaffordable. Pet ownership now means insurance to cover vet bills for increasingly complex treatment, some of which wouldn’t have even been a consideration in years gone by. Dogs need puppy classes and behaviourists, beds, leads, harnesses, multiple toys, enrichment activities, bathing, grooming, special diets. You can literally spend thousands on shit for your dog, which wasn’t the case years ago
@Jellycatspyjamas the pet industry, in particular the veterinary section, is aware that there is money to be made by exploiting our emotional attachments to our pets. But it's all gone too far and it will end up killing its golden goose.
The breeders turn out animals which are badly bred and develop health problems. The vets then perform complex and extremely expensive medical procedures to save the animal, which dies anyway.
It's a racket.

@MsMcCoo In some ways you are right.

My dm didn't have a dishwasher or a washing machine, so did those by hand, but she worked 11-3, termtime only.

I have all mod-cons but I work 8-5 all year. I cook from scratch as she did, but I also make our bread because shop stuff is so poor quality now.

I have a better standard of living - car, central heating, annual holiday - but I'm a business graduate with 40 years tech experience whereas she left school at 16.

I seem to work a lot more to achieve my better life style but it's certainly not lavish. I don't have a life where I can relax about money. Still watching every penny.

I think too every single part of life has become more complicated and commodified.

There was a thread recently about dog ownership being a luxury that will become unaffordable. Pet ownership now means insurance to cover vet bills for increasingly complex treatment, some of which wouldn’t have even been a consideration in years gone by. Dogs need puppy classes and behaviourists, beds, leads, harnesses, multiple toys, enrichment activities, bathing, grooming, special diets. You can literally spend thousands on shit for your dog, which wasn’t the case years ago.

And it’s like that with everything, there’s no holiday, season or activity that hasn’t been turned into an extreme selling opportunity, and people do it because what’s the harm, I’m working hard, my kids deserve experiences and memories. And that may be true but working ourselves into the ground to pay for it all isn’t healthy.

Modern life does work ... for the people at the top who are creaming off all the profits and benefits.
We are just cogs in the machine that makes the billionaires wealthy.

It is tricky to balance everything. I love that I live in a world where I, as a single woman, can rent a house all by myself. I'm incredibly lucky in that it is subsidised because it is owned by my workplace. However, I'm not on megabucks, and there is one wage coming into this house. I still have bills to pay, and I maintain the house as best as I can. Yes, it looks a bit messy sometimes (long-standing DIY projects that need fitting in around long days at work), but it will get there in the end... I hope! I have cheap hobbies, don't use the car much, haven't been on holiday for years, and yet money still seems to go in one hand and out of the other!

It just seems daft that we spend the best years of our life in work, with our time off limited to holidays and weekends (if you're lucky). We pay other people to raise our children when we might do a better job ourselves. We ship them off to schools, spend a couple of hours a night with them, and that's it, five days a week... and yet the most important thing that you can give your children is your time (assuming, of course, that you're a good and kind parent, who actually likes their offspring!). Food prices are shooting up, and yet farmers aren't being paid much more (35p per litre of milk, vs. £1.20+ for two pints in a supermarket). It is a bit depressing sometimes, but at least we have better healthcare and education than some other countries, and women have rights here.

I get what you're saying @DeluluTaylor

we live in Cornwall. Low income due to it being Cornwall. High house prices... due to it being Cornwall. We always "muddled along" but in recent years the council have increased Council Tax a lot. Not only this the bus is so expensive for short distances so I live on the outskirts of a good sized town & it costs me and my son £6 for a one way ticket. It's 3 miles away!

No safe cycling lanes. In fact, the bus company has gone into administration so we won't even have public transport soon.

They're now discussing charging to park at the few remaining free beach car parks during the Winter.

Honestly can't even afford to park at the beach, can't afford to go into town, everything is closing down, hospital is just awful. I feel like we can't afford to be outside, in Cornwall!

We are looking at moving away for jobs & to actually have a life but it feels a bit claustrophobic at the moment because the whole world feels the same.

I just want freedom, I want to roam, I want to cycle and explore! I want a job with a future!

Thank you for letting me rant and sulk 🤣

I made changes to make every week better, instead of working myself to death for a pension I might not even spend, and holidays abroad.
We have a small house, hobbies that hardly cost anything, both work 30 hours or less, and have a couple of short breaks in the UK a year.
I look forward to every week now.

Would you have known about your parents' money worries when you were growing up?

And even if it because they went mad in Next, that’s the society we live in. Bombarded with ads and influencer hauls telling us we need all this stuff. I got into debt down that rabbit hole.

For me it’s about stepping off.

My house is perfectly adequate for my families needs. Yes we could stretch to something bigger in a nicer area, with the associated costs but that would bring financial pressure we don’t need. Buying an older car without all the bells and whistles.

Not buying all the things. Clothes that last beyond the point of being fashionable, one set of skin care used consistently instead of multiple products that sit on a shelf, an older phone instead of the latest model, buying the best quality household goods and keeping them til they’re done.

I applied for a new job recently - an increase in hours and days in the office but a much higher salary. I didn’t get it, and rather than feel disappointed I felt relief. I realised that my current job pays well enough, has a lot of flexibility and I have a great team to work with. I thought I wanted the prestige and salary and to be seen to progress my career but actually I was already dreading the increase juggling I’d need to do to accommodate it. So for me it means valuing the job I have and the lifestyle it affords in the round.

But each person needs to decide what they want for themselves, the idea of having it all is such a fallacy, something has to give and that all too often is health and wellbeing.

I think one thing many are missing is that over last hundred years quality of life was getting better and better and now it's dipping.
Yeah, great, people in 60s didn't have x we now have. Fine. Doesn't mean no one will moan going back to it.
In last 15 years my salary rose, yet my wuality of life didn't really. Even pre covid we could afford holidays, theatre etc (saved for it before anyone starts) now, it's considerably more difficult to achieve even 75% of that "fun". There are no cheap cits of meat (they now cost same as medium priced ones), I swear lentils even have gone up like fuck, energy, housing... It's never ending.
So yes. People moan, especially imho us in 30s and 40s. Generally our group can afford considerably less than our parents and grandparents could. And it ain't because of avocado on toast.
Like fuck can I afford same quality furniture or car my parents got when they married without selling a kidney. The furniture will probably even overlive me!
"buy less" is great if that less was somewhat affordable and lasted.

I was born in a post-Communist country. My mom worked 7am-3pm and my dad worked shifts. We lived in a nice semi with a big garden and a dog. One of the parents was usually at home from 3-4pm, cooked late lunch/early dinner and we spent most of the time outside. Holidays were once a year at the seaside. In the summer on the weekends we went to the forest to do mushroom/berry picking or go to church and see family. No soft-play or parent-organised entertainment. We were happy.
My sister still lives like this back home 30 years later.
When I moved to UK, I left my flat at 7:30am for work to return home at 7pm. My husband worked similar. After a while we realised that if we want children, we cannot go on like this. So now we have 2 kids and work from home, but I know it won't be forever.
Our house is smaller than the house I grew up in when I was a child. My sister has a bigger house than ours and they bought even more land to build another house. I don't know whether this means this country here is going down the drain and Eastern Europe is on the rise, or it's something else. Now I'm not sure it was a good decision to come here or it's simply time to move back?