Modern life doesn’t work

It was always thus, I'm afraid. There was no golden age when one parent stayed at home and week-ends were gloriously long, holidays by the sea the nicest thing to do etc.
There were always too many children in care homes, not to mention the ones living in dire poverty or just off the breadline. I was brought up in 'rooms' as a child and lived in what would now be called a HMO, with lots of families with 2 or 3 children all living in one room, sharing a kitchen and bathroom.
Schools perhaps met more needs, since there was still a emphasis on explicit teaching rather than learning through play, discovery learning etc and generally children could read and many (not all by a long chalk and certainly not as many as people think) read books.
But life was a struggle, holidays were few, food was adequate for most, not enough for a lot of people. My mother cleaned other people's houses so we children could stay on at school and get out of the poverty that afflicted my parents. We were lucky indeed to have parents that would do this. Most could not, or could not think beyond the day to day and the need for children to go out to work asap and contribute to the family income.
Life has only been 'nice' for a small proportion of people, those with enough money from inherited wealth or those lucky enough to go into professions i.e. the middle-classes; everyone else has always struggled. Capitalism may raise all boats, but most boats don't rise very far. Now, most people are much better off, really we are.

Pricelessadvice, your post is indeed! I was born in 1950, parents lived with DMS parents, I apparently slept in a drawer!! When I married in 1970,(naively got pregnant at 18) we lived in a couple of freezing rooms,shared bathroom. Then bought a caravan,a cold metal box not a fancy park home. My late DM always worked, cleaning jobs when I was little and I went with her. Late DF had a bicycle cycled 15 miles each way to work. First car in the 60s, no telephone,you walked to the village centre to the call box..my late DFS mum born in 1900, also worked fruit picker and the kids went to.

@Bargepole45 but why even bring Kenya into the conversation? Other European countries have issues too but there isn’t the same inequality, high childcare costs, high housing costs, etc.

A fall in standard of living literally means that you pay more for less

But the burden isn’t shared equally in the UK.

I don't know why you think someone voting Reform is facing reality any less than someone voting Labour or Conservative

Because Reform is a new party growing in popularity & apparently offering something different. It isn’t which is my point….

constantly handing out money to those that don't work. It isn't exactly helpful in a productivity crisis is it?

We can’t just abandon pensioners although the triple lock should absolutely be paused.

This.

Yes, I agree. I didn't feel hard done by, sharing with my sisters or waiting to use the toilet! You just learn to give and take, I think.
Your point about pack animals - I can never understand people who put a little baby in a completely separate room from themselves.
I think we've got quite atomised.

All you say is correct. I remember my parents had an assortment of mis-matched furniture when I was a child - mostly given to them by parents or my father's patients (he was a doctor). I also remember how absolutely thrilled my mother was when they could at last afford a fitted carpet in the living room instead of a square of thin carpet in the middle of the room! That kind of joy has disappeared.

What is the definition of progress though? I dont feel humanity is progressing or has progressed?

In more modern times (mid 60s) things were not as peachy as we might think. My mum became pregnant with her first baby( me) in 1964 and,as soon as she told her boss, she was given a letter with her leaving date. There was no option for returning to work and she didn't work again until I was 14 and my youngest brother ( 11) started at secondary school. She had to argue for that. My father felt that it reflected on his ability to feed the family and said " No wife of mine goes out to work". My MIL was only ever allowed to volunteer in the library at my husbands school so she could devote herself entirely to her husband and family.She was bored out of her large brain for many years. My best friend's mum worked for MI5 as a graduate. She wanted to marry. You had to leave your job as soon as you were married because MI5 required your total attention and that was now to be given to your husbandand inevitable children . My mum shopped every day when we were babies ( born 65, 66 and 68) because she didn't have a fridge ( that wasn't unusual). She washed using a twin tub and then put the clothes through a mangle.No disposable nappies just a piece of Terry towelling, 2 safety pins and plastic pants. One wee and the thing is soaked. She would tell you life wasn't a bowl of cherries.
Add to that the fact that if you got pregnant out of wedlock you would both be marched down to the church by the girls parents and it would be sorted. If the young man was no longer around you'd be sent to a mother and baby home and your baby would be adopted . No discussion , no options. My inlaws married because she was pregnant. My husband's late wife's parents married because she became pregnant. They'd only known each other a few weeks and had nothing in common. They're 90 and 85 now. They have lived a million years of misery together. Divorce was utterly shameful and a woman couldn't get a mortgage on her own so she was totally stuffed .Rape within marriage was possible. Your husband had rights to your body . When my mum was in hospital in Wales,giving birth to my brother, the woman next to her had had ger TWELFTH baby. The doctor offered to tie her tubes. Her husband had to sign the paperwork and he wouldn't agree. I wonder how many babies she ended up having

To give an insight into charity workers - our wages are probably about 30% lower than the equivalent private sector roles - I recently saw how inadequate our pay is for many of us when reading the union's pay demand document.

I can afford to work there because I rely financially on my private sector-employed partner and I have a side hustle.

There is quote after quote from people who are buying the bare minimum of consumer goods and not going on holiday but are having to take second jobs, use credit cards to keep on top of bills, and even use food banks. Lots are regretfully thinking about quitting.
These are highly qualified, experienced professionals (engineers and so on).

It left me feeling that charities will have to shut down if they can't find anyone willing to work for them.

@TheaBrandt1 that's a sweeping statement! I know many members of the GRT community who pay tax, work (ooh, some in the NHS and education even!) and participate fully in the life of the country.

But we evolved to live like that didnt we? We didnt evolve to be very separate, in our little separate houses and rooms.

We are pack animals, social animals.

Holidaying in the UK is sadly quite (too!) expensive though.

Exactly

You mean money from the tax payer, who isn’t working the minimum needed and whose taxes pay for you to work the minimum. Which is part of the problem, a loss of productivity caused by people making a choice to work fewer hours subsidised by taxpayers.

@Pricelessadvice good points. There always used to be a "saving up" mentality. People saved for holidays or what they wanted, because they couldn't get credit. It's now become part of the common culture - instant gratification. You get whatever you want.

I don't think we should tie gender progress into economic progress. Why on earth should saying 'this isn't working' mean women can't have a career, use contraception, or divorce their husbands? Progress means finding new ways, not going backwards!

Talking to people, building a washing machine, fixing a car, lots more

I don’t think it’s late stage capitalism, I think it’s a consequence of spiralling government spending which leads to squeezing people more and more. We have too much debt as a country so your taxes on everything are high. We don’t build enough housing to cope with our expansive immigration policies either. Something like 40-60 of petrol cost is literally just tax. Supermarkets making very low margins,

Also downsize and get a more manageable home.

Not completely uncommon! You're right about standards and expectations though.
Me and my siblings were born in the 60s and we had a bath and hair wash once a week. I shared a bedroom with my two sisters until I left home. Seven of us in the family, one bathroom.
I think there's always a tendency to think that the past was easier or better.

But years ago, people went without rather than get into debt. My parents sat on an old sofa they’d been given when they first bought a house. They drove a rusty old banger that was cheap to buy and run. Their holidays were going to stay with friends a few hours away, not expecting an abroad holiday every year. People want everything instantly nowadays- new TV, furnished house, new cars, foreign holidays…
Babies wore knitted clothes rather than shop bought items that were expensive, meals out were a once a year thing…

I think people now want too much instantly.

Not RTFT and will probably get flamed for my responses but I completely agree and more, OP.

It shouldn't be the norm that babies are placed in nurseries full time sometimes from being under 1. No judgement for those that do by choice but it shouldn't be the norm through lack of choice. In many cases, by far the best thing for children under school age is to be home with a parent, just as it used to be. It also shouldn't be the norm that children as young as 4 are in preschool care from 7:30am then school then after-school care up to 6pm. It's my opinion that 4 is far too young for full time school anyway.

Modern society is a grim treadmill where families are routinely forced to have two working parents, too often doing jobs they see no real meaning in other than financial reward to keep their family afloat, and everyone is spread far too thinly. For too many families, it becomes a vicious cycle where there is no way out. The amount of times I've seen posters castigated on here for not working - we should be seeing families as households where if one adult is working, that should be adequate. Families should be able to survive with one working parent (or two part time perhaps) to enable the family to be prioritised.

Capitalism has broken communities. The supermarket decimated the corner shop and the suburban mini high street, where local people would shop and see each other regularly, and adult (yes, usually mum) was home with young children, building strong relationships and support networks with other mums. Roles were clear and delineated. I don't advocate for a return to a lack of choice for women - I would advocate for the ability for women (and men) to choose to return to a more traditional set up, no matter how this is structured in terms of gender. Now, you have to have an adult in the household earning a significant amount to be able to access a life where one adult can be at home raising children, being there at the start and end of the school day, maintaining the home so that weekends and evenings can be relaxed and free for family time and hobbies etc.

I believe that a different way of life is possible but in many cases, it means a different approach and in many cases, accepting sacrifice to standard of living by reducing spending, eating differently (more time for cheaper home-cooked meals if someone isn't working), forgoing expensive holidays and doing things more cheaply. It's a different topic really but home education (even if not for the full school age period) is also a wonderful option for those who feel their children have been shoved onto life's treadmill too early and would prefer a more home-based existence. I realise this isn't possible for everyone and that it's not the right choice for everyone either. Essentially, there should be room for choice - have two working parents and put the children into childcare from a young age or choose to have a parent at home with them or some combination of the two, whatever works best for your family, but families should be able to choose, especially during the 0-5 years but also beyond.

You can get that through hobbies. I do a lot of creative hobbies whereby I do get that sense of satisfaction of making something. Because I think you're right in saying we do need it. That said of course, it is having the time to do those hobbies! I only can now because my DC are grown up and I wfh so have more time.

I do think the push for everyone to own their own homes and linked to that the hideous rental market, is one of the big problems. In countries where renting is the norm, and therefore cheaper and more stable, people are happier and have more of a life. My grandparents were from mainland Europe. They rented the same flat from when they married in their mid 20s to when they died in their mid 80s. My grandad did spend some time in a care home but they had some sort of insurance they'd paid into that covered that. They were quite well off financially. They also worked very near to where they lived (my gran worked part time), so would be home by 5:10 every day (they also used to have lunch at home every day!). Now a lot of people have long commutes, which has become the accepted norm. When I last worked in an office, I'd be out for 11+ hours a day which is just too much. I had no life.

I don't know what the answer is though as we've all just accepted that this is how things are. Personally I stepped back down the career ladder to ease the pressure, but I could afford to do it and had the opportunity to do so. I could be out earning more but it just isn't worth it to me.

I think it's possible to downsize your life, although not palatable for many, because it's all about "more".
We live in a modest house because we wanted to have a lower mortgage and pay it off sooner.
I think many people max themselves out and it's got to be stressful.

Kouklamo, I agree. 200 years ago, farmer workers weren't working 10 hours a day, they were working 16 hours a day. 5 year old boys were climbing up hot chimneys to clean out the soot. 20 was middle aged. Poverty was 6 people living in one room,no sanitation, disease was rife. My DH was born in 1957, hardly the dark age,he shared a double bed with his late father and brother,a bed, not a bedroom!!

There is a lot of pressure but you don't have to have holidays abroad, live in a big house, look perfect, own a massive SUV, work full time... If you're willing to make 'sacrifices' (which aren't really much of a loss) and go your own way, life can be less stressful. But we're up against all sorts of pressure to spend more, own more, do more, work harder etc and it can be almost impossible to resist.