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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the USA is on the verge of civil war?

257 replies

spitofyou · 19/01/2026 07:22

I was reading this morning about trump readying 1500 troops to deploy to Minnesota following the murder of Renee Good.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2026/01/18/trump-minnesota-insurrection-act/

If this goes through, that’s it right? The insurrection act means he can suspend elections, and the military will be fighting the American people.

AIBU to think it’s inevitable at this point? Trump will never back down.

OP posts:
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13
SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 11:14

StandFirm · 19/01/2026 10:55

It's a very difficult question.
I think most people watch US films and series because they're generally well produced and because they've shaped so much of how we understand narrative in film and tv. Other countries by and large have also adopted similar styles, so I think it's not as simple as 'US gone bad therefore we don't like any US entertainment anymore'. However, the thing about soft power is that it does rest on a message. Call it propaganda if you like, but however you look at it, entertainment is a way to disseminate certain values: who gets to be the hero, who gets to 'win', what's considered a good outcome morally speaking etc. If the US loses what was vastly considered to be some kind of moral leadership (despite its flaws and unpalatable foreign policies in previous decades), and the perception becomes that obviously American values no longer appeal, then I think we'll see people slowly but surely go off anything American produced.

@StandFirm

That's a very thoughtful post, thank you.

I suppose there is a very real possibility that US entertainment could, at the very least, become more difficult for me to access, or more inconvenient.

If it ended up being banned in this country, I would look for other ways to obtain the entertainment. I'm not sacrificing things that give me pleasure.

I'm thinking that I should maybe stock up on DVDs while I have the chance, though!

oscalo · 19/01/2026 11:12

Follow the money. The puppet masters behind the puppet are the ones to watch. It's all about money, and they will not want to jeopardise that - for them and their ilk. I keep that in mind myself, as some comfort, however misplaced that might be in the long run. I'm thinking debt and other actions that the world could take against America in retaliation rather than armed conflict.

Epstein distraction. Yes that's a big factor, but honestly nothing will shock people now so I wonder what's behind the reluctance to release the files? One day and it's all over, unless others are affected who are below the radar now, but who might be destroyed if exposed. I dunno.

World Cup. FIFA. I wonder if that's a way for the world to show its displeasure and disgust by boycotting it. Sad for the teams who have trained so hard, but this is a global issue now. Does anyone think the WC will be affected? I know some games are in Mexico and Canada.

I agree with others that the anger, disappointment and fear amongst the population is only in pockets of the country where people are most affected, or Blue States. If your life goes on as normal, why would you worry?

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 11:08

EasternStandard · 19/01/2026 10:58

A few might want them to speak up but more probably find it irritating and irrelevant what an actor is saying beyond being paid well to do entertainment.

@EasternStandard

Exactly - celebrities are constantly attacked when they do speak out and are lambasted for "getting political".

I think celebrities are entitled to speak out about whatever they want, when they want, but if they're tired of the verbal abuse they get for doing so, then I don't blame them at all if they stop for now.

MandingoAteMyBaby · 19/01/2026 11:06

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 11:04

@marsaline

But I'm curious about how the film and TV industry would be affected in the event of a war. So in that sense, it's legitimate for me to be involved and ask that question. Because I'm concerned about how a war would affect my ability to enjoy the pop culture that I love.

I described what 'E.T.' was because the poster I was talking to had never heard of it.

Edited

It’s also interesting because ET specifically is about a peaceful alien just trying to do a bit of gardening and is hunted down by federal agents and is hidden by a US citizen to protect it from torture & pain.

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 11:04

marsaline · 19/01/2026 10:51

I think there might be better boards for you. This is a serious conversation about world politics and potential war with the US. It’s not about ET.

try tv and films

@marsaline

But I'm curious about how the film and TV industry would be affected in the event of a war. So in that sense, it's legitimate for me to be involved and ask that question. Because I'm concerned about how a war would affect my ability to enjoy the pop culture that I love.

I described what 'E.T.' was because the poster I was talking to had never heard of it.

StandFirm · 19/01/2026 11:01

EasternStandard · 19/01/2026 10:58

A few might want them to speak up but more probably find it irritating and irrelevant what an actor is saying beyond being paid well to do entertainment.

Yes, actors speaking up or not is a matter of their personal stance which they don't have to share with the wider public. It's how to them how they want to engage with politics.
I think however that the very message spread by American entertainment might change down the line and therefore how it's perceived abroad, and consequently, the appetite for it might change too.

itstimeforpudge · 19/01/2026 11:00

@OldGothsFadeToGrey the predictions for the US and Europe are indeed terrifying regarding Greenland. With Trump and Brexit we have played right into the hands of China and Russia.

EasternStandard · 19/01/2026 10:58

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:54

@SilverSurreal

But Hollywood and the celebrities AREN'T doing anything that goes against my moral compass, that's the point. They're literally not doing anything at all except their job, which is to entertain.

And if an individual creator does something that goes against my moral compass, that's not going to stop me listening or watching something they've created (or taken part in creating) if I enjoy it. Making such sacrifices is a personal choice, and one I choose not to do.

Some people do still listen to Gary Glitter (privately.)

A few might want them to speak up but more probably find it irritating and irrelevant what an actor is saying beyond being paid well to do entertainment.

Oopsylazy · 19/01/2026 10:58

Civil war with whom? Its own citizens?

It wouldn’t be much of a war when there’s not really any opposition would it?

Why don’t you go over and volunteer to fight OP if you think “something has to be done?”

StandFirm · 19/01/2026 10:55

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:46

@bombastix

Maybe, but it seems hard to comprehend that people who have been fans of individual celebrities, as well as films, TV and pop songs, would just decide they no longer enjoy them any more?

A lot of people highly regard 'E.T' as a film (for good reason.) Will they suddenly think it's not an enjoyable film any longer?

It's a very difficult question.
I think most people watch US films and series because they're generally well produced and because they've shaped so much of how we understand narrative in film and tv. Other countries by and large have also adopted similar styles, so I think it's not as simple as 'US gone bad therefore we don't like any US entertainment anymore'. However, the thing about soft power is that it does rest on a message. Call it propaganda if you like, but however you look at it, entertainment is a way to disseminate certain values: who gets to be the hero, who gets to 'win', what's considered a good outcome morally speaking etc. If the US loses what was vastly considered to be some kind of moral leadership (despite its flaws and unpalatable foreign policies in previous decades), and the perception becomes that obviously American values no longer appeal, then I think we'll see people slowly but surely go off anything American produced.

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:54

SilverSurreal · 19/01/2026 10:52

People used to listen to the music of Gary Glitter - if people do things that are against your morale compass, then you vote with your feet and your remote control.

I dont really listen to Meatloaf any more because of his anti vax status before he died

The late rocker Meat Loaf was outspokenly anti-vaccine mandate and anti-mask before his death — once telling a reporter, “If I die, I die, but I’m not going to be controlled,” according to reports Friday.

The 74-year-old “Bat Out of Hell” singer — who was reportedly critically ill with COVID-19 before he passed away Thursday — was opposed to pandemic restrictions, slamming lockdowns and mask mandates during an interview last summer.

The Grammy Award-winning musician, whose real name was Marvin Lee Aday, also railed against vaccine mandates in Australia, sources told TMZ.

Meat Loaf, who struggled with asthma and other health conditions, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in August he considered lockdowns “political” and masks “useless” before offering reporter Scott Mervins an embrace.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/21/meat-loaf-was-reportedly-anti-vaccine-before-dying-from-covid-19/

@SilverSurreal

But Hollywood and the celebrities AREN'T doing anything that goes against my moral compass, that's the point. They're literally not doing anything at all except their job, which is to entertain.

And if an individual creator does something that goes against my moral compass, that's not going to stop me listening or watching something they've created (or taken part in creating) if I enjoy it. Making such sacrifices is a personal choice, and one I choose not to do.

Some people do still listen to Gary Glitter (privately.)

itstimeforpudge · 19/01/2026 10:53

No not civil war for the reasons pp have mentioned. But there is a real risk of war with Europe. Imagine that, the US, a greater and up until recently adored ally, threatening war against Europe. @FFSToEverythingSince2020 what reasons do you have for the suggested timeline of 12-24 months, out of interest? The Greenland issue makes it much more immediate to me, like within the next 3-6 months.

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:52

bombastix · 19/01/2026 10:51

Didn’t see it, sorry? Was it popular

@bombastix

Yes, it was humungously popular. It was released quite a while back now, in 1982.

In the 1990s, BT ran adverts "BT phone home..." which was inspired by E.T.'s line on the film "E.T. phone home..."

SilverSurreal · 19/01/2026 10:52

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:46

@bombastix

Maybe, but it seems hard to comprehend that people who have been fans of individual celebrities, as well as films, TV and pop songs, would just decide they no longer enjoy them any more?

A lot of people highly regard 'E.T' as a film (for good reason.) Will they suddenly think it's not an enjoyable film any longer?

People used to listen to the music of Gary Glitter - if people do things that are against your morale compass, then you vote with your feet and your remote control.

I dont really listen to Meatloaf any more because of his anti vax status before he died

The late rocker Meat Loaf was outspokenly anti-vaccine mandate and anti-mask before his death — once telling a reporter, “If I die, I die, but I’m not going to be controlled,” according to reports Friday.

The 74-year-old “Bat Out of Hell” singer — who was reportedly critically ill with COVID-19 before he passed away Thursday — was opposed to pandemic restrictions, slamming lockdowns and mask mandates during an interview last summer.

The Grammy Award-winning musician, whose real name was Marvin Lee Aday, also railed against vaccine mandates in Australia, sources told TMZ.

Meat Loaf, who struggled with asthma and other health conditions, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in August he considered lockdowns “political” and masks “useless” before offering reporter Scott Mervins an embrace.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/21/meat-loaf-was-reportedly-anti-vaccine-before-dying-from-covid-19/

Meat Loaf was anti-vaccine mandate, reportedly seriously ill with COVID before death

The late rocker Meat Loaf was outspokenly anti-vaccine mandate and anti-mask before his COVID-related death.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/21/meat-loaf-was-reportedly-anti-vaccine-before-dying-from-covid-19/

marsaline · 19/01/2026 10:51

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:50

@bombastix

'ET' is a reference to the great film 'E.T. The Extra Terrestrial' - ET is a alien who gets left behind on Earth and befriends a 10-year-old boy (Elliott.)

I think there might be better boards for you. This is a serious conversation about world politics and potential war with the US. It’s not about ET.

try tv and films

bombastix · 19/01/2026 10:51

Didn’t see it, sorry? Was it popular

EasternStandard · 19/01/2026 10:51

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:46

@bombastix

Maybe, but it seems hard to comprehend that people who have been fans of individual celebrities, as well as films, TV and pop songs, would just decide they no longer enjoy them any more?

A lot of people highly regard 'E.T' as a film (for good reason.) Will they suddenly think it's not an enjoyable film any longer?

That FB post aside, which I skipped as I avoid FB stuff like that entirely anyway, celebs and films are still watched here.

Some find the political statements irritating, or the person so, and others want more from them but overall nothing much has changed there in terms of viewing etc

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:50

bombastix · 19/01/2026 10:48

ET?

No what happens with nationalist governments is they encourage this feeling in other people. I don’t think history shows otherwise. Their media is simply part of that

@bombastix

'ET' is a reference to the great film 'E.T. The Extra Terrestrial' - ET is a alien who gets left behind on Earth and befriends a 10-year-old boy (Elliott.)

ChanceOfALifeLine · 19/01/2026 10:49

OldGothsFadeToGrey · 19/01/2026 09:52

This post has been circling FB recently, I agree with both of you.

The Suicide Pact: What Happens the Moment We Touch Greenland…

By Brent Molnar

If the United States follows through on the threat to invade Greenland, we need to be crystal clear about what happens the next morning. This is not a real estate transaction or a routine military exercise. It is the geopolitical equivalent of pulling the pin on a grenade in a crowded elevator. The moment American boots hit the ground in Nuuk to seize territory from a fellow NATO member, the world as we know it ends. The consequences will not be temporary sanctions or angry letters. They will be total, permanent, and devastating.

The first domino to fall is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization itself. NATO is built on the sacred promise of Article 5, that an attack on one is an attack on all. If the U.S. attacks Denmark, we are not just breaking the treaty; we are triggering it against ourselves. NATO dissolves instantly. The alliance that kept the peace in Europe for 75 years evaporates, leaving the continent to rearm and realign against the new aggressor across the Atlantic. We don't just lose an ally; we create a unified enemy.

The military repercussions will be swift and humiliating. Europe will immediately demand the closure of every U.S. military base on the continent. Ramstein in Germany, Aviano in Italy, Lakenheath in the UK, all gone. Our ability to project power into the Middle East and Africa vanishes overnight. We will be evicted from the very soil we helped liberate and defended for decades, forced to retreat to our own shores as a fortress nation, isolated and friendless.

Then comes the economic nuclear option. The European Union is the largest single market in the world, and they will weaponize it. Europe will likely move to call in U.S. debt and dump their dollar reserves, sending the value of our currency into a death spiral. The U.S. economy, which relies on the dollar being the global reserve currency, will collapse. Inflation will make the post-COVID spikes look like a rounding error. Your savings will be worthless before the ink dries on the invasion orders.

Corporate America will face an extinction event. U.S. companies will be expelled from the European market. Apple, Google, McDonald's, and Tesla will see their assets seized or their operations banned. Trillions of dollars in market capitalization will be incinerated in minutes. The stock market will not just crash; it will close. We are talking about the complete de-globalization of American industry, cutting us off from the wealthiest consumers on the planet.

The skies will go silent. European aviation authorities will almost certainly ground all Boeing jets and ban U.S. airlines from their airspace. Transatlantic travel will cease. If you are in Paris or Berlin, you are stuck there. The logistical arteries that feed our supply chains will be severed. We will be cut off from European medicine, machinery, and technology. We will be an island nation in the worst possible sense.

The cultural isolation will be just as stinging. The International Olympic Committee and FIFA will have no choice but to bar the United States from competition, just as they did with Russia. There will be no World Cup matches in New Jersey. There will be no Team USA in the Olympics. We will be treated as a pariah state, unwelcome on the global stage, forced to watch the world celebrate without us.

For individual Americans, the consequences will be personal and painful. Visa-free travel to Europe will end immediately. Americans currently living or working in Europe will lose their legal protections and residency status. They will become persona non grata, potentially facing deportation or internment. The "blue passport" that used to open every door will suddenly be a red flag at every border crossing.

This is the end of trust, and it does not reset. You cannot invade a democratic ally and then say "my bad" four years later. The psychological break will be permanent. Europe will realize that the United States is no longer a partner but a predator. They will build their own defense architecture, their own financial systems, and their own alliances that specifically exclude us. The West will continue, but the United States will no longer be part of it.

Invading Greenland is not a show of strength; it is an act of national suicide. We are trading our reputation, our economy, and our security for a frozen island and a handful of minerals we can't even process. The price of this real estate deal is everything we built over the last century. If we cross this line, there is no going back. We will be the lonely superpower, ruling over nothing but our own decline.

@Underthinker agree with you too. I fully expect the events of Jan 6 2021 to be repeated, maybe exceeded.

Edited

I’ve see this circulated. I think it’s an interesting look at the non military power that Europe has. But I just do not believe that most European countries, the EU and the UK would be willing to take these huge steps.

The UK could dump US debt and cause huge economic turmoil in the US. It would also massively affect us - if the US economy falls, UK pension funds do too, etc etc.

Honestly, I think Europe will give up Greenland. They’ll negotiate something which looks vaguely face saving and try to sell that as a win.

bombastix · 19/01/2026 10:48

ET?

No what happens with nationalist governments is they encourage this feeling in other people. I don’t think history shows otherwise. Their media is simply part of that

spitofyou · 19/01/2026 10:47

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:46

@bombastix

Maybe, but it seems hard to comprehend that people who have been fans of individual celebrities, as well as films, TV and pop songs, would just decide they no longer enjoy them any more?

A lot of people highly regard 'E.T' as a film (for good reason.) Will they suddenly think it's not an enjoyable film any longer?

I find the vast majority of American celebrities unpalatable now due to their silence on the issue.

OP posts:
SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:46

bombastix · 19/01/2026 10:42

I think the idea that people will like American culture and its ambassadors is a bit moot really. You will probably pay more for access based on a digital service tariff for Netflix etc

@bombastix

Maybe, but it seems hard to comprehend that people who have been fans of individual celebrities, as well as films, TV and pop songs, would just decide they no longer enjoy them any more?

A lot of people highly regard 'E.T' as a film (for good reason.) Will they suddenly think it's not an enjoyable film any longer?

StandFirm · 19/01/2026 10:45

MindYourUsage · 19/01/2026 10:23

He is pissed that he didn't get the Nobel Peace prize and is having a tantrum.

Here is what he wrote in a letter to Norway:

“Considering your country* decided not to give me the Nobel Peace Prize for having stopped 8 Wars PLUS, I no longer feel an obligation to think purely of Peace, although it will always be predominant, but can now think about what is good and proper for the United States of America,”

(* the prize is not awarded by the government of Norway.)

I think the irony of the following sentence in that same post is just breathtaking: 'why do they have right of ownership anyway? There are no written documents, it's only that a boat landed there hundreds of year ago'. Interesting wording... does he understand why Thanksgiving is celebrated every year?

bombastix · 19/01/2026 10:42

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:39

@bombastix

Well, I was asking specifically about celebrities - pop stars, actors. Many people in Britain are fans of individual American celebrities, and a lot of these celebrities are vocal about being opposed to Trump.

So I don't necessarily think people would stop being fans of individual celebrities, who are clearly not responsible for any of this.

I think the idea that people will like American culture and its ambassadors is a bit moot really. You will probably pay more for access based on a digital service tariff for Netflix etc

SorcererGaheris · 19/01/2026 10:41

spitofyou · 19/01/2026 10:38

Personally the possibility of nuclear war is a lot more concerning to me than whether we get to watch films or not!

@spitofyou

That's fine, I don't expect everyone to have the exact same concerns as I do. I'm just outlining my personal concerns and priorities. I'm very much emotionally attached to my favourite celebrities in particular and adore them.

I'm a hedonist. Hedonism is the philosophical view that pleasure is the highest good. I try to live a hedonistic lifestyle as much as possible, which means engaging in activities which I find pleasurable. So I'm naturally very concerned about whether my ability to do this might be under attack.