To think the USA is on the verge of civil war?

With MAGA every accusation is a confession.

Only one of the two countries has a secret police disappearing people from the streets.

@Gahr

When he dies, I am tempted to blast 'Celebration' by Kool and the Gang.

I would never do such a thing normally for someone who had never done anything to me personally (and I wouldn't even do it then!) but I am dual national (both American and British) as my mother is American. I have American family and I've visited the USA countless times since I was a baby. I consider it in a number of ways to be my 'second country'.

It is a place I care about and feel a lot of affection for and I feel that Trump is trying to destroy it.

One (small) bit of hope to cling to is that more Republicans are speaking out about their opposition to Trump's threats about Greenland, as well as his threatened tariffs.

Military action is not supported by the vast majority of Americans (polls suggest only around 4 or 5% are in favour.)

If there's enough determined opposition from Republicans, then there might be a point at which Trump steps too far even for them. I don't know if it's likely, but I'd like there's a slight chance that he could be removed from office.

Anyway, as a dual national (American and British) I intend to register to vote so that I can do my bit to help the Democrats take back control of Congress.

I think uncivil war is more likely, but I don't think it'll come to that. I genuinely don't think he's long for this earth.

I have had this film in mind a lot recently as I have watched agog at events unfolding in the US.

He boasts about acing 'very tough' cognitive exams, but the 'tough' exams he is talking about (and that his medical team have had him do three times in the last year) is the screener for dementia that starts out asking you to name animals: www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-perfect-health-cognitive-tests-b2888369.html

@ALittleUnsure1

Also, as a small example, Frasier and Friends are two of my favourite shows and I don't think either could be accused of promoting any kind of fascism.

They both have their flaws, as any kind of media does, but I'm hardly going to stop enjoying those shows due to the horror of contemporary politics or a potential war. Watching them is something fun for me to do. The same goes for other American TV and films and music that have been created years in the past - with music, I barely like anything from this century - practically all the music I like is from the past.

As for current/future American TV and film - if something directly endorsed fascism, or authoritarian politics of any kind, I would not enjoy that, so wouldn't watch it simply because I wouldn't find it fun to watch.

But for anything that didn't endorse anything awful and was genuinely simply pure entertainment - like Friends was - then I'd definitely watch it if I enjoyed it. I don't think it should be assumed that all entertainment contains a political agenda or propaganda purposes. Some may, perhaps more than there's been before - but there would surely still be entertainment that is JUST intended to be good entertainment.

Yes I see

@Jamesblonde2

Some people have suggested that they will stop liking music and films, or at the very least that they will be encouraged to turn away from them.

The question of whether it will be easy for me to access entertainment (in the event of a war) is relevant.

The reason I gave a short description of 'E.T.' was because the person I was interacting with claimed they had never heard of it, and I took them at their word.

But that specific film is not the crux of what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the effect that a war might have on my ease of access to entertainment, and that is pertinent to this thread.

Intelligent

Can’t quite believe we’re talking about ET on this thread. Yeah good film. But irrelevant to the discussion. People will not stop liking music and films

@ALittleUnsure1

I'll watch whatever I find entertaining. Being entertained is pleasurable to me and my personal pleasure is my main priority.

In that case the "average person" better not give a shit if/when they find themselves on the receiving end of violence, abuse or mistreatment by government agents.

If no-one gives a shit, those perpetrating this stuff will become emboldened and they will lose what little respect for constitutional niceties they have.

Remember the Niemoller poem? If not, google it and have a read.

I've gone off American series and films because of the American culture now. I can't relate to it, and what I'm seeing in the news disgusts me. I imagine many people would feel similarly if it gets to war. I think the American entertainment industry will soon start pumping out overt propaganda (as we saw during the 90s) and the gulf between what we see in real life and on the screen will become too hard to reconcile. It's becoming a fascist nation. Would you watch nazi German films even if they were technically good?

Sometimes I wonder what world other people are living in. Strange how we can have such vastly differing interpretations of the same situation, though I suppose it's not so surprising, given that we're likely looking at different news sources, following different accounts, and so on.

There are a handful of, well, nuts who are obsessed with protesting anything and everything. Then there are some who are being paid to protest. These are the people you see on the streets. The average person is not about to start a war because of ICE working to deport people here illegally. The average person won't lose sleep (much less start a civil war) because a few people are injured or killed as a result of frankly stupid behaviour when dealing with ICE. The average person is also not remotely worried that elections won't happen as and when they are scheduled.

Ok, I see what you mean. What would you do instead (genuine question)? I tend to think the polarisation is mostly caused by misinformation, but perhaps you have another perspective.

I dont think trump wants civil war, he wants a war.
Ww3 thats what he wants.

No I think comments like this, all over social media, make polarisation worse.

If I wanted 100 more Renee Good's, and 100 more incidents like the ICE Dallas shooting last year, I would post all over social media in the same way some here do.

That’s not how democracy works. Democracy isn’t just about elections. Those in government still have to respect the laws of the country and the consitution, which outlast each elected government. ICE are currently acting outside the law (many things they are doing are only legal for police officers, not them), and this wouldn’t be changed even if every person in the country agreed with what they are doing. If they want the actions of ICE to be legal or constitutional, they need to present legislation.

Although I'm not sure we can spot cognitive decline when there wasn't much there to start?

Five months ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/general/psychologist-says-two-notable-changes-in-donald-trump-prove-cognitive-decline/ar-AA1JYw8i

Psychologist Says Two Notable Changes in Donald Trump Prove Cognitive Decline

A senior psychology lecturer at Cornell University, Harry Segal, has identified two behavioral changes in President Donald Trump that he believes strongly indicate cognitive decline.

The remarks, made in an interview with The Guardian and published on August 3, come amid growing public debate over the 79-year-old president’s mental fitness during his second term.

Segal pointed to Trump’s tendency to abruptly switch topics mid-conversation without any logical transition, a pattern he described as “digressing without thinking… without a coherent narrative.” According to Segal, such sudden shifts can signal diminished self-regulation and difficulty maintaining a consistent train of thought—changes that are often associated with neurological aging.

The second behavior he highlighted is confabulation, where a person unintentionally creates inaccurate or distorted memories and believes them to be true. “It’s where he takes an idea or something that’s happened and he adds to it things that have not happened,” Segal explained. As an example, he referenced Trump’s claim that his uncle taught the Unabomber at MIT, an assertion that is factually impossible.

@Crikeyalmighty

To be honest, I think some people's expectations of ordinary people are too high and unreasonable. They're expecting heroism and greatness from people who are simply average and don't want to be great or to be heroes. Which there's nothing wrong with. I never understand why 'being average' is seen as an insult. It's perfectly fine to be average.

Recently I posted some thoughts about this on social media and I will share them here too.

I'm coming to think that the expectations that some people have 'of the masses' do not correlate with what many - if not most - are inclined towards or capable of. The idea that everyone has the potential for greatness (whatever that is) in some form is not necessarily true, and I believe it has created a climate in which people expect more of your everyday citizen than is realistic.

I think many, if not most, people are average - and there's nothing wrong with that. I consider myself among them. Averageness is not a flaw and it's a shame that it's so often seen as such. Average is just fine.

I think most people are not exceptionally good or exceptionally bad, they're just averagely decent. Most people are not extremely brave - cowardice is something else that is not a failing, it's just an aspect of one's character. If people are too afraid to do something, they're too afraid - it doesn't make them a bad person.

Some people are bewildered that many everyday citizens don't do more to stand up against bullies and tyrants until it's too late, or almost too late. I believe the answer is simply that most people aren't cut out to do so. We're not brave, noble, self-sacrificing heroes and we don't want to be. We're just ordinary, average, okay people. The expectations that others hold are too high.
Aiming for greatness - and celebrating greatness - is something that society should indeed continue to value, but I believe that we also need to start accepting, tolerating and celebrating mediocrity.

You think that comments on mumsnet can make a war more likely? I don’t think recognising an increased potential for conflict is causing it to happen. I’m not sure that pretending that it isn’t happening is helpful either.
I don’t think that a full out armed conflict is the most likely outcome either, but the objective potential for it is there in a way it hasn’t been previously. The country could live on the verge of a conflict that never escalates for a long time, which is also not a great situation for its people.

I don’t think some people get that people have businesses with ‘sponsors’ and jobs and livelihoods to contend with too -US has a very hire and fire culture and with very few protections. many will be under ‘instructions ‘ from companies with GOP owners/bosses not to make comment/act etc due to customers/sponsors!! Many would be at three at of contracts cancelled etc etc - basically free speech is out the window there unless you have ‘nothing’ to lose. It’s truly dreadful but not hard to see why it is as it is- next thing is I expect some McCarthyism type stuff from any big names if they raise their heads because they aren’t ’true patriots and are a threat’ - I don’t put it past certain idiots here to act the same if in that position too

@spitofyou

I disagree. It's not at all reasonable to expect people to endanger themselves (or their loved ones.) There's a general understanding that people's safety and lives have to come first.

It's why civilians aren't expected to run into a burning building to save people from fire or jump into the water to save someone from drowning. Yes, they're heroic if they do that, but it's not expected of us and nobody thinks any less of us if we don't endanger ourselves. The responsibility for those things falls upon those who are trained and paid to deal with emergencies.