Husband resents ds with Down syndrome.

Odd to get stuff thrown in face from almost a century ago!!

I’m sorry OP, as your H has refused counselling I would be considering the future of your marriage. DS well-being is your top priority.

Absolute nonsense. He has Down Syndrome. It literally comes with developmental delays. He will hit many milestones later than non-disabled children. It is expected. He will have extra support in school and help includes meeting his physical needs. I have helped students with Down Syndrome with toileting in sixth form college!

Of course she can. Mainstream schools can and do support with toileting needs and aren't allowed to turn away a disabled child because they aren't potty trained.

Having worked in both mainstream schools and special needs, I can tell you your son will not be expected to be fully toilet trained. He will have a statement of special needs and DS comes with developmental delays. His individual needs will be met in school through support staff. The local authority allocate funding for him based on his needs. Many children with special needs need toileting support and not only early on.

I am having a nightmare toilet training my 3 year old, we have been trying for a year and not much progress. She doesn't even have special needs.

All I have to add is your husband needs to get his shit together.
This might not be the hand he wanted, but this is the hand he was dealt.
He can join millions of others around the world who are also pissed off about their lives not turning out exactly like they wanted.
Thats life.
You make of it what you can while you’re here and try not to harm anyone or yourself along the way.
I’m sending you love from faraway California ❤️

You cant send your child to school in nappies. Who do you think is going to change and clean him? Thats not a teachers job. Why not leave it another year.

I’m sorry that you’re all having such a tough time but your DS must be your priority.

No matter how great your marriage is, if your DH is going to shout, abuse, or emotionally neglect your child, he has to go.

Adjusting to life with an SEN child is difficult but there are no guarantees with a child. He could have had a perfectly healthy child who then had a catastrophic accident. Or a debilitating illness. You never know what’s around the corner and you can’t take it out on a child just because it’s not the idyllic life you expected.

It’s even more worrying that your DH seems unaware of how awful his behaviour is. Your DS will be picking up on his mood and that will make his anxiety around toileting even worse.

I’m sorry OP, I know this is a shitty thing to have to face. But if you ignore what’s happening, you are enabling abuse - and you don’t sound like the kind of person who would do that.

FWIW, I have 16 yr old SEN twins. Neither will ever live independently and my DS is still in nappies. He also struggles with having his nappy changed, so I really do understand how hard it can be. And how unrelenting.

All the best for you and your lovely DS 💐

Did you know before DS was born that he was likely to have Down Syndrome? If so, was your DH fully on board with continuing the pregnancy, or was he more just going along with what you wanted?
If neither of you knew, then it must have been such a shock, and an enormous thing to process, grieving the future you both thought lay ahead.

From what you've said about DH it seems like he just can't cope with it, never has been able to, and isn't open to trying things that might help him adjust. Honestly, I can sympathise with how he feels, as I know that I wouldn't be able to cope with having a child with an intellectual disability.
But the way he's actively treating DS is emotionally harmful, and it isn't fair on DS or on you. Removing your DH from the equation might actually remove a lot of emotional strain on you, and make your life easier - it's very sad, but it's possible that separation might be for the best.

Do you honestly not know if you are being unreasonable? Honestly? Your disabled son is being treated like shit by a grown man. How can you even ask if he is in the wrong or not? Something is off with your judgement if you are letting this happen. Your child is too young to control his emotions, what's your husband's excuse? Why can't he control his as a grown man with seemingly no learning difficulties. He's a prick.

Does your husband see that his behaviour is problematic? If no, then I'm afraid you need to make a very cut and dry choice here.

If yes, and he is willing to explore his feelings then I think he'd benefit more from peer to peer support than counselling alone.

I have a 6, nearly 7 year old who is not toilet trained.

It's a whole saga, and I felt completely unsupported but now I think even if I had the support, it wouldn't have made a difference because nobody around me really understood the mechanisms behind my son's developmental disability and how it impacts toilet training. I had to do a lot of my own research into things.

Between the ages of 2-5 though every poo got washed off in the shower. It was a lot calmer than trying to tackle laying down with baby wipes. It was a stand in the tub, take the nappy off, let gravity get the most of it off into the nappy, and a full bottom down wash with bodywash. It sounds time consuming but it was actually a lot less time than we were taking with baby wipes and chasing round the house and cleaning up mess that was caused along the way.

Another thing that helped, though not in the traditional sense, was signing up to the ERIC Bowel and Bladder weiner specifically for SEN children and toilet training. Now they offered a lot of advice, and they were very responsive to questions, but none of their advice helped us with toilet training. It did help us realise we weren't doing anything wrong though.

I think peer to peer support is the best though. Our next door neighbour has a child who could have been my son, except he was 5 years older. I had no idea he was still in nappies though until his mum talked to me out in the garden and offered me some nappies because he had just cracked the toilet at 9 years old. Despite everything they had tried, it just took him till then to show an interest. Routines didn't work, rewards didn't work, recognition of any sort just caused apprehension and anxiety. She could have been talking about my child, and until she said this, I felt like I was doing everything wrong. I felt like, if ERIC were telling me that it is possible for SEN children to be toilet trained, it must just be me that's getting it wrong, but the only thing I was getting wrong was trying to force something that can't be forced. Every child is different.

What your husband needs to understand though, some people will be in nappies for life. Whether they're in nappies until theyre 6, 7, 8 or even 80, if you're doing everything you can, and it isn't working, it's not your fault, or his fault, or even DSs fault. Your child deserves love, for being where they are right now.

He needs to decide now if he can give that love. And that means not raising his voice and swearing at his child who thinks he is the sun moon and stars.

Maybe your son going to school will help build in some structure amd learning. And as another poster said, I.think you should find appropriate parent support groups and get some help yourselves. But do make sure you only get support and guidance from appropriate people who understand disability and have experience. Maybe it would help your dh to bond with some other fathers in similar situations.

Do you have a nurse specialist from the community learning disability team? This was my job for many years (now retired) and they would be the very best person to support you.
Sadly I saw so many absent fathers who had either left the marriage via divorce or had taken a job which necessitated them being away for large amounts of the time. Very, very few men stayed and were supportive.
A lot of mums told me it was actually easier once the man wasn’t there because then they only had one child to look after.
It’s a sad reflection of male selfishness.

He need to shape up or ship out
perhoas give him a deadline that he needs to change by
no more sulking
no more withdrawal of affection
And if he’s doenst change his ways within say a month
bin him off
you will perhaps find life easier without a man baby too

tour ds is 4 YEARS old now
he’s had long enough to get his head round this
so he’s gotta sort him self out or stop adding to your workload
stop keeping the peace and call it out every single time

good luck op I hope you realise what a great job your doing and your ds is lucky to have you

I will say that it’s good that you’re acknowledging it whilst he’s still young. I know of an adult with DS whose relationship with their mother compared to with their father is light years apart because although the dad didn’t abandon them he never really adapted his parenting approach which obviously didn’t work. You could see the anger that was felt towards the father by the child.

I think you're right to be worried about the impact on your son. His Father's behaviour is already having a massive impact on him.
Most of this, what happened today and previously, is a result of your husband's behaviour and not your son's disability.
I have a severely disabled son who is 38 and he still has 'accidents'.
It's a hard path you're on lass. Hard enough without having to fight your husband as well.
Keep looking out for your boy and tell your husband to shape up or ship out.

I think the posters suggesting kicking him out are doing so in protection of a little 4yr old DS child whose Dad is being a bully.

I know it is hard but H simply cannot do that in front of DS. In specialist schools there is change face practice. If a child isn't responding well to the person helping them, or the adult is struggling they request a change face. But this only works if both parties can be calm when asked to step in and if it isn't always the same parent opting out for the other to always have to deal with the situation.

H's behaviour is unacceptable. He cannot do this and then refuse help to handle things better. He has to make a choice, stop being abusive or get help or leave.

Agree about contacting the school about what they expect from DS and how well equipped and trained the staff are with DS children. Ask if they have helped support toilet training before? I think the pressure needs to stop with the toilet training. It will never become easy unless it becomes a fun, non threatening process where DS feels safe and maybe he isn't ready.

None if this is your fault OP. You sound lovely and stuck in the middle alone. Are your and H's family supportive? Such a sad post and sorry you are in thus situation. There really is a special light with DS kids, I hope your husband learns to see it.

Got to admit I agree with this. He's entitled to feel all of those things, that's not the issue. The issue is that he's not working through them or dealing with them, he's taking it all out on your little boy.

He expects him to understand and comply like a typical four year old and gets angry when he cant.

The trouble is, it sounds more as if he expects him to respond in the way a 7-8 year old would, which is pretty surprising. Even a 4 year old will often tend to do daft things like running away rather than complying with what their parents want.

OP, you said the problem with toilet training is that your child sometimes says no when he needs to go. If it's been a bit of time since he last went, can you just gently override that anyway and suggest he tries?

I know this won't be popular but your husband is going through something and isn't coping, he is so lucky that he and your child have you there to shore up his shortcomings and that you are giving your child the unconditional love and non judgement he deserves (you sound amazing and the loving person your child badly needs). It's massively unfair on your child and you but the bottom line is your husband can't fully give what he needs to for some reason at the moment, maybe he can't help that and desperately needs help and support to get on track but what he needs to do is take ownership and responsibility for that and find out what he needs to do to get his act together so that he can do better. Talk to him, understand what's going on for him and where he is at with it all - he sounds angry and grieving as you say, but you need to know what he is going to do about it or is he just going to wallow in this place? because whilst I have a lot of sympathy and understanding for the pain he is in, it's not acceptable to just do nothing and expect you and your child to suffer while he doesn't get it sorted. Find out if he recognises it's not good enough and whether he wants to work on it and take it from there. I hope you are finding time in all of this to look after yourself because you are doing a huge amount of the heavy lifting at the moment

Would you consider deferring?
Sounds like a difficult situation all round, and as things stands it’s going to be tricky for the staff expected to change him.
Mainstream or special school?
Sorry things are tough, OP. I feel for you all

When you separate from a partner like this you create a safe home with a calm atmosphere for you and your child and the other parent gets the lighter load that they are basically pushing for so they tend to behave better. The Dad may not seek 50/50 custody because he resents having to do the work either way at least part of the child's week is good rather than having an angry resentful parent stomping around whenever they feel like it.

You sound so passive.

He swore at your 4 yo and then you continued to let it go on until DS was hysterical. Why didn't you tell DH that's not OK and to leave and you'll sort it? Are you scared DH will do something worse?

I think you all need space. It's shit but he needs to decide if he wants to be an active, good dad or walk away.

I'd suggest he looks at counselling. The grief is normal but his reaction is damaging.

Oh @BaronRock, you are not being unreasonable at all.

I just did a Google search and across multiple online fora there are lots of parents of healthy, neurotypical five year old boys and girls asking for help because, for whatever reason, their kids are still not potty trained, and they are older than your DS. Your DH needs to get a grip and stop the potty training becoming a bigger thing than it really is, at least while the mite is only four, because while you say that your DS does not understand, I strongly suspect he will be making a connection between the poo in his pants and his father's shouting and refusal to give him hugs, and that must be tearing the poor little man apart.

And it isn't about the potty training is it? To your DH that is just emblematic of the life you will never have. If DS was all of a sudden potty trained tomorrow then the issue would become him dressing himself, or fastening his shoe laces, or learning to read, or any one of the hundreds of steps that children go through as they develop, some of which your DS will achieve with no problem but others he is likely to struggle with.

I don't really know what to suggest other than counselling. The truth is your DH needs to put his big boy pants on and realise that he is now responsible for a little boy who is who he is, and that boy should be his number one priority and his pride and joy no matter how messy he is. But I really don't think you are the person who can tell him this and him listen because you are too close. I don't know if you have a GP or social worker or friend or even a teacher who could speak to him, but I am sending you my thoughts. It cannot be easy having two babies to deal with at the same time.

You are right to listen to your gut. Tell your DH that he needs to urgently sort out his anger problem, and you will no longer tolerate him shouting at you or DS. Tell him if he ever feels an uncontrollable urge to shout, he must leave the room immediately until he can get himself under control. If he forgets, tell him to get out the moment he starts.

You must protect your DS from this behaviour, and make it clear to your DH that his emotions are not for you to manage, and you will always protect your son from his shouting. Your little boy does not deserve to be shouted at. Your DH needs to seek out whatever he thinks will help him get better about this, and that is his job, not yours.

This situation doesn’t sound hopeless to me. His behaviour sounds like it comes from a place of stress and frustration rather than deliberate cruelty, but he needs to be under no illusions that his treatment of his son is cruel, whatever is going on internally for him, and you will divorce him if it continues.