Does the age of Ozempic and MJ jabs expose what a load of bollocks the ‘Body Positivity’ and ‘Health at any Size’ movements were

Being obese doesn’t mean the same as being ignorant or somehow stupid.. You write like an obese person doesn’t know what being so overweight weight is unhealthy for multiple reasons, let alone that people snigger quietly when you walk in a room or a use themselves saying I like your dress and immediately smiling with an eyebrow lift at the person next to them. Being very over weight is complex. It is not as simple as ‘eat less, move more’. No one would be obese if that were the case.

I went and scrolled through Instagram after reading this thread and saw a fat yoga teacher, a fat runner and a fat weightlifter. Try as you might, I don't think there is a negative spin you can put on that. They're women showing other fat women how to exercise and inspiring them to see that size is not a barrier to becoming active. Surely that's something we want. Being body positive in fitness spaces is really helpful as a lot of fat people can feel anxious about being seen exercising, what they look like in gym clothes, whether certain exercises (like yoga!) are just for thin women. Again, nothing to do with the OP's ridiculous assertion that it's all about making men date fat women. Nothing about encouraging people to stay fat. Just a simple message that being active is good for you, mentally and physically, and you can do it whatever size you are. That's body positivity. What problem could anyone have with that?

No, it doesn't, OP, HTH.

I'm getting a bit sick of this "overweight" nonsense on this thread. Being obese is unhealthy, being a bit overweight not necessarily so. I had a friend who was slim. They smoked, drank every day, and didn't eat a healthy diet. I've never smoked, don't drink, and eat loads of fruit and vegetables but because I am a little overweight am I unhealthy while my friend is healthy simply because they are slim? I recently saw my GP regarding my BP. He looked at me and said "you're fine". Stop trying to make everyone who isn't slim feel bad about themselves - you aren't some superior beings you know.

How's your vaping rates? Ours are through the roof. More people are smoking and vaping in NZ now than when I was a kid in the 90s. Crazytown.

And not whataboutery. You say people's free choices that result in bad outcomes should not receive care on public healthcare. I would agree with you in theory as long as that extends to ALL free choices that impact on health, not just the ones you don't like. That includes things like vax history, food intake, exercise, alcohol and substance use (ALL substances), sleep patterns, work choices, sexual behaviors and number of partners, stress management, behaviours when sick, personal hygiene, recreational pursuits, choice of transport etc etc. All of that is personal responsibility too.

My guess though is you don't like to consider that because that tramples on your "rights". Whereas you just want to be able to beat down on fat people.

You can blame them for adding in addictive substances for profit. Which sugar is.

And yes - personal responsibility. Of course that matters. However what you're suggesting, I would like to see that applied across the board, with your household being the first to go under scrutiny. One whiff of anything slightly not virtuous, a free choice you're happy with - or one of your kids is happy with - and sorry, to private healthcare you go. I'm betting I'll find something. Likely many somethings. With biometric data collection being what it is these days you should be careful - one day you may find the standards you apply to fat people are pointed back at you.

I think this sort of tired whataboutery will also die out once WLI have really brought the UK obesity figures down.

I grew up in the 70s when all the whataboutery was from smokers trying to deflect, and point the finger elsewhere.

I could never have imagined a time when hardly anyone smoked, and the majority of people's eyes were opened up to the damage it does.

I think the same will definitely happen with obesity during the next decade or so.

My take? And I’ve been a range of sizes.

Body positivity was always a rationalization.

At the end of the day … hey whatever…Nothing really affected me about it one way or another (except the vanity sizing…that shit ain’t cool). So if someone wants to tell themselves that they are healthy at 200#s or they are big boned or whatever ok good luck with that.

You know what I like an evening cocktail… is it healthier than not drinking Not so much sadly. But the difference is I’m not going to waste time nor effort pretending it it is. I’m just going to own the fact I have an evening cocktail.

I spent time in a specialist recovery unit following a relative's injury, at least half in the unit there with severe injuries requiring expensive care were from car accidents. I'm happy to drive, does that mean I shouldn't receive care if something happens?

They are partly culpable as are tobacco companies.

But we're all responsible for our own bodies and let's remember, we're talking about those who are really happy to be overweight.

If you're happy to be overweight, or you're happy to smoke, you can't blame the companies for your conscious choice.

Well, people drive in cars and expect healthcare if they crash. They don't get the flu jab every year and expect healthcare for if the flu is worse than they expect. They run and blow their ACL's. They mountainbike, and break bones and backs. They play rugby and expect care for concussions and long term brain damage. An awful lot of people drink and expect care after having too much, or care after a lifetime of moderate drinking. Smokers and now vapers still expect and receive care. Are you suggesting fat people shouldn't? How many of your own choices outside food would you be willing to restrict to qualify for care - sports? Using a car? Your Friday wine? Do we really want a society where you have to meet a virtue test before Drs will treat you? Or where rich people can afford copays so it's the poor that go without?

I'm also curious as to whether you think the govt and corporations who allow so much crap into our food supply to make it as addictive as possible are in any way culpable? The tobacco companies sure were found to be so, and heavily penalized for their role.

To me it feels like perpetuating diet culture. Body positivity was meant to be about removing shame / disgust from weight.

It now feels like some (not all) people who felt the unfair criticism and shame of being overweight are now perpetuating that for others by losing a lot of weight, becoming a low bmi and posting lots of photos on social media about how great they look.

Not everyone, obviously. Some have genuinely been focused on health outcomes. I have just seen more people posting before and after body size photos that I have people posting before and after blood pressure / blood sugar photos.

It's got nothing to do with hate and everything to do with taking responsibility.

And everything to do with people in the UK thinking they can do as they please, and have the NHS 'fix it' at a later date.

Until they can't of course and then they're pretty stunned at the 'unfairness' of it all.

Much like how smokers used to act.

All of this 💙

Agree with everything you said. The body positivity movement now is incredibly toxic.

Most of the “influencers” on social media are utterly vile. The bullying and shaming of slimmer women, and of women in their own community who try to lose weight is horrendous. They’re anything but body positive to anyone who doesn’t look exactly like them.

And the utter hypocrisy each and every time one of them suddenly decides to lose weight, after bullying anyone else who did the same thing, is gobsmacking.

Honestly I've had this argument my entire life - "but your health".

My health metrics are currently excellent, all of them. I'm in peri menopause so accept that may shift a bit over the next decade or so, but given those metrics and that I don't drink or smoke and am active, I still think weight should not be the key thing health is judged on.

And regardless of that, no one should be encouraged to hate their body so much they will miss out on life while trying to change it, in either direction. Life is way too fucking short for that - and we all deserve to enjoy the time we have on the planet no matter our weight or the state of our health.

What was the alternative version of the song though? A catchy ditty about hating how her thighs wobble and wishing she had Kare Moss' cheekbones?
She shouldn't have to stay at a heavier weight forever just because she sang about her body in a positive way.

I do think there’s a huge difference between almost treating size 22 plus as something to feel 100% ok about and being accepting that 16 plus is not anything to feel horrendous about or ‘lesser than. ‘ yep it’s not ideal health wise and something many want to work on but as a size 16 myself and 64, certainly don’t think I’m repulsive and yes bothering a bit about yourself helps . I know a fair few size 22 plus’s women who look very well turned out, I’m not sure though if any are 100% happy about their weight regardless of how good they look- when I got to a 20 I got numerous health issues , looked ok- as it was kind of ‘all over’ and I’m young looking anyway -didn’t feel ok

many of the movement’s most ardent activists and celebrity advocates appear to have done a complete U-turn and are literally unrecognisable as half (or even a third) of the person the used to be!!

Like most things in life, it comes down to money. There was money to be made by influencers promoting 'body positivity' - now there's more money to be made by promoting weight loss via WLI.

No one who creates content on social media does it for altruistic reasons. They do it to make money, pure and simple, and they'll turn like weather vanes in whatever direction the money is blowing.

As with any movement there will be the extremes. BP extreme and extreme weightloss - just sides of the same coin. The obsession with weight is so tedious and deeply unhealthy in itself. I'm so over it. I did not enjoy being a teen in the heroin chic era, I don't want it for 13yo DD. I hated my body for years because of it. I wish I'd worn bikinis and embraced the joy of being young. I look back and am so sad for the teen I was - not overweight at all, but full of shame and with a near ED to boot.

Why is it always weight that is in focus - too much, not enough, never ever good enough? Probably because it earns some at the top of the pyramid $$$ to keep women hating themselves and forcing conformity on each other on both sides of the aisle.

Yes, overweight and obese is unhealthy. You know what else is unhealthy? The internet. I've doom-scrolled for about 3hrs while sick in bed. What's that done to my overall health? Nothing good - my cortisol is higher than it should be and I want to stress eat - probably my body gearing up to face down a threat. That's biology for ya.

Staring at a screen all day at work - as unhealthy as sugar, I'd say, but the gods of policing other people's choices when it comes to food / weight won't say boo to the tech overlords, much less the society we've created that is the exact opposite of what our bodies need.

Electric light at night - unhealthy. Late nights, long term sleep deprivation - unhealthy. Sustained moderate to high stress levels - unhealthy. Single family households bearing the weight of everything alone - unhealthy. Poverty - unhealthy. Information overload - unhealthy. Constant stimulation - unhealthy. Why is obesity always framed as society's biggest health issue? To me it's a symptom - a link in a chain, important to address, yes, but not the only thing and certainly not the cause. But tackling the root issues is deemed too hard, and more importantly goes against commercial interests. Much easier to just get people to hate themselves and each other for an easily observable trait, it was ever thus.

My friend has stage 3 bowel cancer that has spread everywhere. She is in the fight of her life. She was fit, healthy, ran marathons etc, but with family history that bit sooner and younger and much more aggressively than expected. She would love to be dealing with just being my slightly overweight self right now. Honest to God, fuck those who say "fat" is the biggest thing we should be focused on. Go hug your kids. Hug your friends. Be present. We get one wild and beautiful life. I'd rather live it present and free, with weight as simply a part of health rather than the be all and end all. It could all be gone tomorrow.

To add, nothing wrong with slimness, but it shouldn't be the sole end goal for everyone any more than fatness should, because humans come in different versions!

A previous poster mentioned body neutrality, but think she's right in that "giving less of a shit about people's appearance" will probably never catch on.

I can only hope the next generation are more concerned about the irreparable damage that being happy to be overweight can do.

Especially once they're over 50.

It's all fine being happy until diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure and damaged joints kick in when they're older.

Your last paragraph is intriguing to me as I've had similar conversations with my mum and my gran. They will never fully accept their larger bodies but they're happy (if baffled) that I do and am completely uninterested in losing weight or being a certain size. Having watched them diet unsuccessfully my whole life, they can't fathom a life where you just go about your business and have no idea what you weigh or how many calories you've consumed and all the rest of it. For their generation, being thin seems to be the ultimate achievement and I have never understood this.

I don't value thinness at all and I am happiest in my current size 18-20 body. Have been bigger and smaller and this is my natural set point. I have ADHD meds which kill appetite and food noise during the day and I am still happily the size I am because all my other health measures continue to be solidly healthy, the initial loss from starting those meds levelled out quickly, and I have no interest in being thin, it's not my natural shape and I look weird and gaunt when I am the recommended BMI for my height. I also don't care when my weight fluctuates because it's the least interesting thing about me and my life.

The body positivity movement was meant to be about all bodies being worthy of love and acceptance, and about not missing out on experiences and life while waiting to become a smaller size.

I sometimes think I'm the only person in the world who actually likes my body as it is and wouldn't change it even if the WLI were free and had zero side effects.

On the other hand they've been so life-changing for some friends of mine that I can see the other side, but am also saddened to see what feels like the end of a short period of time where people understood that human bodies come in a range of shapes and sizes and are not uniformly slim.

When I was younger, it was generally accepted that the worst thing you could be was fat - nothing tastes as good as skinny feels and all that bollocks. I know people from that time who refused to have photos of important events in their lives because their visible body size was somehow more important than their Masters degree, or their child's naming ceremony.

That we may be entering another phase where thin is the ultimate goal, women are once again expected to shrink themselves to be acceptable and palatable, and slimness is the only thing that matters to many people is depressing beyond belief - humans have so much else going for them.

I can only hope the next generation have a more balanced attitude and more genuine self love, I guess.

I don't think anyone was truly convinced by the body positivity movement, especially regarding women's bodies. Judgement, shame and guilt are what we are made to live with on a daily basis from birth.

We all knew that being fat was unhealthy for our organs and uncomfortable to live in, however I think that body shaming is not an effective weight loss tool so it was generally agreed that "mind your own business" was the best way forward.

I would also like to add that slim people are not always healthy. There are plenty of people that survive on high levels of caffeine, sugar and fat with few nutrients but because they are slim they are not judged for it.

There's more than one way to interpret that line though. I read this as "the skinny bitches who bullied me about the size of my ass", rather than "all skinny women who I'm calling bitches simply because they're skinny and I hate them for it".

Regina George from Mean Girls could be called a "skinny bitch" because - well, she was. Skinny, yes, but ALSO a bitch who specifically bullied others about weight and ostracized them for their eating habits/weight. Cher from Clueless wasn't a skinny bitch. She was skinny, yes, but also NOT a bitch about other people's weight. She generally tried to make other people's lives better, not worse. Big difference.

That said both actresses would be (and Alicia Silverstone was, quite viciously so) considered fat by the heroin chic standards I grew up with. I remember Alicia being ripped to shreds in the media as being too fat to play Batgirl. Utter lunacy.