To wonder if anyone has or is considering moving to a country that's less likely to be involved if Putin attacks a NATO country. (title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

The elephant in the room is the moment things escalate to alarm you enough to leave you won't be able to!

You wouldn't be able to leave the UK nor would any country take you in legally.

One of the first things countries do is close their borders.

So you would need to cross the Channel illicitly and try to avoid being arrested in Europe and interned (if you're lucky).

The chance of getting to somewhere remote like NZ illicitly must be zero.

So truly if you're thinking ahead about this you need to move to your chosen "safe country" ASAP. Get the applications in NOW.

Read some history OP. In WW2 untold millions of people all through Europe were displaced, on the move, trying to find safety. Very, VERY few made it into Neutral countries nor were they welcomed with open arms if they succeeded.

Honestly you're in total fantasy land on this unless you get going urgently. If you're really lucky some country may accept you - but get cracking!

We are already at war with Russia but they are never going to be in a position to invade the UK. They'd have to get all the way across Europe first.

War War 3 has probably already started but if it kicked off properly with nukes and such, it wouldn't really matter where you were there would be no escape from it.

But not so far removed from ANZUS, the Pacific equivalent of NATO.

New Zealand went cold on the alliance in the mid 1980s but has recently endorsed AUKUS’s contribution to regional security and stability.

@Hoardasurass

I'm a coward. Thing is, I don't think that's a bad thing. If someone is too afraid to do something, that's just the way they are. I don't believe it makes them a bad person.

I think even many cowards have their points at which they might fight. If my home and possessions were at threat, I'd be much more likely to fight. (I watch Home Alone every Christmas and while I don't know if I'd be bold enough to do it, I certainly love the idea of bashing people about who are violating my home, which I consider my sacred space.)

In the unlikely event of Britain being invaded, perhaps I would then be willing to fight in some capacity.

But I honestly can't say that that's a given. I might well be too scared to fight even in those circumstances.

So, I'm a coward, but I'm not ashamed of that, because I don't believe that it's anything to BE ashamed of. Being a coward can often help someone survive for longer, or survive completely. "Look out for number one" is good advice, I feel.

There's a great disco song from the 1970s called 'Young Hearts Run Free'. One of the lines goes "Self-preservation is what's really going on today." That's practically my motto.

Yes, having had family members severely suffer in war and lose everything, it has crossed my mind whether where we are geographically is safe. Although Britain is one of the countries with most political and military deterrents to not be bombed down like Gaza or part of Ukraine, as long as it stays allied to the US, unfortunately.

I'd have thought Denmark, where I'm from, would usually be fairly safe, but apparently it'll be the focal point. The times we live in, eh.

Would be Switzerland, South America or NZ for me.

War potential isn't the only factor though, been thinking of emigrating for a while. But it does add to it.

Countries safe from Putin are China and North Korea and I don’t fancy them much.

The thing about war is goes where ever it wants.

Remember there are thousands of people in the world trying to escape actual war.

Gosh. Clearly I am still in a daze. 😁
Began the year with some family difficulty, so struggling a bit.
Going out for a long walk now and definitely not checking to see if Trump has invaded Greenland.

Clearly no geo-political skills 🤣🤣🤣

Agree re Ireland. Whilst we hold a neutral status and are not members of NATO we are very much allies of UK and USA. Reliant on UK to protect our airspace and the US airforce using Shannon airport our neutrality won’t hold in the event of WW3.

Not trivialising anything.

Mithering about the subject of potential war on opinion forums achieves nothing except instilling an ongoing level of anxiety.

All the blabbing about lockdown before it happened changed nothing.

Much better to get on with real life, try to take real world action to improve things and then relax and enjoy the moment - because it's all we really have.

Are you in the U.K. How much do you think about and worry about this in your daily life?

If there’s an issue a lot of the EU is closer anyway.

Not over-reacting. Or being unreasonable. These are scary times and getting worse. So far my planning has only extended to thinking about buying water purification treatment and a wind up radio.

He wouldn't necessarily win against the rest of NATO. They have more personnel, a higher combined GDP, and their combined military equipment is not too far off the US.

The rest of NATO has focused more on things like public healthcare and removing wealth inequality as they've historically had the backing of the US. However, any war would likely be drawn out and preceded by much political posturing, giving the rest of NATO time to produce more munitions/equipment.

In theory Russia should've steamrolled Ukraine and the US should've streamrolled the Taliban but the former has been going on for years and the latter was a couple of decades after which the US gave up. No way could they just take Europe.

There have been a lot of military simulations and the US often doesn't come out very well. Like when the Swedish ultraquiet sub 'The Gotland' faced off against an entire US carrier group and 'sank' the USS Ronald Reagan carrier ship despite it being surrounded by many ships/submarines/anti-sub aircraft.

It was only a training exercise but the Gotland was able to send photos of the Reagen in its crosshairs whilst still being undetected by the entire US fleet so 100% it could've sank it. A £100m submarine (now succeeded by newer designs) facing off against an entire US carrier group and sinking a £6bn ship worth 60x it's own value! And it managed to do this repeatedly over multiple reenactments to the point the US requested to borrow it for two years to study it.

Given the US navy is one of their biggest assets it's not great that a tiny cheap sub bested an entire carrier group and sank one of their biggest nuclear carriers undetected. And in the Sandhurst Military Skills Competition the UK has beaten the US 15 times and only lost twice.

Hopefully, it nevers comes to that but I don't think the rest of NATO would be a pushover by any stretch. The US are far more reliant on Europe for imports than we are on them, and logistically they'd likely face more difficulty importing resources than most of Europe would due to being surrounded by water.

There is no doubt that the world is a dangerous place at the moment but it has always been that way. I was a child in the 60s/70s. I remember my Dad going to his civil defence meetings. Not sure what they actually did as I was quite small but he was just an ordinary person. He was almost called up for the Korean War as he did his national service in the late 40s/early 50s.

I also remember the invasion of Cyprus.

The Cuban Missile Crisis saw Russia and America facing off in the 60s and the world seemed to be on the brink of nuclear war.

I think things seem worse nowadays because we have so much access to news 24 hours a day. When I was growing up there were a set number of news programmes on TV/radio and newspapers. There were probably many conflicts going on which we never even heard of.

People forget about the Bosnian war which was only in the 90s.

Awful things happen everywhere and I think that because in Western Europe we have lived in relative peace since 1945 we can't imagine war. My grandparents lived through the first and second world wars but there are fewer and fewer people left who even lived through the second world war.

I think what I'm trying to say is that , yes the world is a dangerous place but it always has been. We certainly shouldn't bury our heads in the sand but I don't think moving countries is any guarantee.

Russia can't even win the war in Ukraine. Putin won't be around forever, Russians will want to participate in Europe and the world again. Who knows what the future holds but I think war with Russia is unlikely, especially to the point of conscription.

Russia aren't going to attack a NATO country. Just like China are not going to attack Taiwan. Mutual destruction policy.

Yeah, probably. This thread is crazy.

MangaKanga · Today 01:56

NZ is a terrific place. But I think it can be hard for foreigners to ever feel they belong there, maybe? If you aren't tangata whenua or of a long standing pakeha family.

Not sure if that is strictly correct, Kanga. DH is a recent Pom import and feels 100% Kiwi. He has a Maori mate in the supermarket who jokes with him every
time they meet about his Pommie accent. DH says "Yeah nah, I'm as Kiwi as you, mate." (Note the "yeah nah" - compulsory Kiwi speak.)We had an Open Home Christmas chez nous, and had: two Germans, two Dutch, one Pom (DH - hasn't yet had the operation - the one that gives you the funny accent), one Aussie, two Americans, 5 Kiwis, one with a Pom father and Maori mum. We all feel that we belong here. Immigrants all, at some stage or other. We had a whale of a Christmas.

Switch off the TV.