AIBU - expecting son to pay for his own 'luxury' groceries on top of rent

He has moved out twice before and both times got himself in financial difficulties resulting in us having to bail him out and him move back home - this last time he would have lost his job (a degree apprenticeship) otherwise.

when he moves buys a house
I note you said 'when' not 'if'.

It seems that you are determined to see him keep his good job and be a home owner. So you put up with all sorts of crap from him, because you don't want him to be downwardly mobile, i.e. end up in rented accommodation in a poorly-paid job with no prospects.

But he doesn't do any housework (I pity his future wife), leaves a mess everywhere, and disrespects you by smoking against your wishes.

At what point do you give up on propping up his future middle-class lifestyle and let him sink or swim on his own? What will it take for you to kick him out?
Even if you are not there yet, it is good to think about this in advance and establish where your red-lines will be.

But surely they should pay a fair share of expenses. If bills are 1200 and there's 3 adults then £,400 each.

They can be responsible and independent without being charged an arbitrary rent. Contributing to cover the additional household costs of them living in the home, is ok, but I don't see how charging an amount just because it's the going rate helps them become independent.

Also, never understood parents taking rent and giving it back, that doesn't teach them any life skills. Better to help them budget and save themselves...

What happens in Spain if the parents are struggling and the DC is far better off?

I really can’t understand parents that don’t. It’s about teaching him responsibility as an adult and that if he was renting he would be paying nearly 3 x that. It still costs them money for him to live there and subsidise food and extra hot water/ electricity. At what age then do you suggest he starts to become independent?

Many parents save the rent money and give it back as a deposit for a house when they move out. What if they want to retire or downsize? Not easy doing that if your 2: year old is still dependant on you is it? The man needs to understand

budgeting
investing
respect for house rules - not smoking - I would never allow that in my house - that’s shocking
contributing to the upkeep of the house

I have an adult son at home whilst studying- he works part time and would always clear up after himself. He is far from perfect but he will mow the lawn/ cut the hedge and do various jobs to help out. It’s called taking responsibility and raising a functional adult not Molly coddling a big baby. No wonder so women end up married to these losers!! Mumsnet is full of posts of mem who don’t pull their weight in a relationship and here is why - attitudes like yours. Shocking.

@SilkySquirrel for the last time, because I have stated it previously - I consider it reasonable for all earning adults in a household to contribute to the costs of that household. Especially in a case like this, where the contribution for board, lodging and bills leaves plenty over for saving (and smoking, apparently)

And I consider describing this as “profiteering” and “abhorrent” to be hyperbolic and rather ridiculous.

You (and your DH, apparently) disagree - that’s fine. I’m not going to change your mind and you aren’t going to change mine.

(BTW, your DH is welcome to create his own account - you don’t have to report his opinion for him)

I shan’t respond further to you as I have been entirely clear. Have a good day.

Why do you think it’s acceptable for parents to make a profit from their DC purely because landlords nearby are profiteering?

Personally I think it’s abhorrent. DH says it would literally be the talk of the town in Spain, and grandparents and other family members would be having strong conversations with any parents who tried it.

That’s fine @jbm16 - happy, from my side, to agree to disagree.

There is a big difference between children contributing towards the additional costs their parents incur whilst they are at home and what a private landlord charges, including all their additional costs.

Setting some arbitrary rate because that's what a flat costs down the road makes zero sense to me.

This! At some point in late teens, early twenties I think it's normal to recognise that you are an adult living in another adults home and stop expecting to be catered for...to offer to do more around the home (not just loading the dishwasher).

If parents want to help their children financially by not charging rent or for food that's one thing...as long as the 'children' reciprocate in an equally loving and respectful way...otherwise it's just infantalising them.

🤣🤣🤣 best thing I've read all week, thanks for that!

Apologies, I missed the sarcasm!

@PithyTaupeWriter

I don’t, but it seems some posters think that any woman would be utterly charmed to cook and clean for this lovely young man

“Because he'd make a massive mess and I/DH would have to clean it up!”

Urgh!! At his big age! Cringe

Let me guess, you also think that any future wife or girlfriend should be grateful for the opportunity to clean up after a Very Important Man

Absolutely, even my 6yo knows that tidying room and doing homework comes before playing.

From the OP's posts - do they give you a positive view, then?

He has moved out twice before and both times got himself in financial difficulties resulting in us having to bail him out and him move back home - this last time he would have lost his job (a degree apprenticeship) otherwise.

He doesnt do any shared housework or contribute to the household in other works - doesnt even clean up after himself, we have asked and its not worth the fights/backlash. We have also asked him to not smoke etc in the house/garden which he does anyway.

TBH he does get all his meals except if he goes out/buys his own takeaway but i originally said sun-thurs because his expectation was we would buy his takeaway if we went out with friends etc (thats his mindset)

Why don’t you reduce his rent to £400 but say he has to buy his own groceries and will not be cooked for? Might give him a reality check as to how much groceries cost…

Because he'd make a massive mess and I/DH would have to clean it up!

'bleating' is pretty rude, @SilkySquirrel

The people posting/talking about local rents view the housing of adult offspring earning reasonable money differently to you. I "get" your point of view. I just don't agree with it.

My POV is that if an adult DS or DD is living at home, and has more than enough earnings to both pay towards household costs and to save money, then they should.

But this is a 23-year-old adult, who still needs to be parented like someone less than half his age.

How is he ever going live independently, if he is cushioned from reality in this way and expected to take zero responsibility for anything?

You seem to have a very negative view of this young man whom you’ve never met.

I’m not sure what the people bleating about local rents don’t seem to get. Landlords are operating as a business. They therefore set rent at a level designed to make a profit.

Many will also have buy to let mortgages to pay on top of their own home. They can also profiteer as there is a shortage of rental properties in many areas.

Parents shouldn’t be making a profit from their own DC staying at home. It’s a bit like saying my DM should be thankful I only charge her £20 for Sunday lunch as it’s £25 at the local pub!

Yes, 27.8% is a bit more than a quarter - for rent, bills and food.

We charge £200 a month, so to me it is a lot (over a 1/4 take home pay).

Have you read the OPs messages?

This is a lazy, insolent, immature and entitled young man with very poor to non-existent life skills. He has attempted to live on his own more than once and failed.

Is it genuinely your belief that allowing him to contribute almost nothing financially (and whine about the little he does at present) and to take responsibility for nothing, i.e. cooking, shopping, bill paying, cleaning, washing, is in his best interests?

He's essentially living a fool's paradise.

Also, you are, by definition, not "a fully fledged adult" living with mummy and daddy.

Local rents are pretty relevant - if it would cost DS £850 pcm for room only, no bills or food locally, vs if it would cost him £350 pcm... it gives some perspective to the PPs who are shouting about profiteering.

The DS is 23. Given he has moved out (and been bailed out) twice, then at least on paper, he earns enough to rent locally. So he could be self sufficient, he is choosing not to be.