Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be so scared and horrified about ICE?

379 replies

BarbaraVineFan · 14/01/2026 23:03

Sorry, I know there must be other threads about this, but I’m lying in bed alone , feeling really terrified about what’s going on in the US right now and what it will lead to. I keep seeing videos saying that Trump’s administration is behaving as though they don’t have to worry about winning an election because they will just seize power. I also saw a couple suggesting that this is the start of civil war. I think it’s such a dark time for the world and I am genuinely worried for my 6 year old DD’s future.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Thread gallery
7
EasternStandard · 18/01/2026 08:29

RingoJuice · 17/01/2026 16:12

Tbh it’s still unclear what they were trying to accomplish. Some say they were attempting to tackle inflation with cheaper labor (asylum seekers were given work permits, this became a huge pull factor) and it just got out of control.

This was a very interesting piece on it: www.nytimes.com/2025/12/07/us/politics/biden-immigration-trump.html

Thanks. I had been wondering how Obama had deported so many without the same difficulty. But the difference between not in the community and in the community makes sense.

Croakymccroakyvoice · 18/01/2026 08:22

Underthinker · 17/01/2026 14:06

A reminder that the political right doesn't have a monopoly on conspiracy theories.

At the moment it's just a suspicion, I'm not out there stating that's what is happening. What we do know though is that he has put thousands of masked armed agents in the city (far outweighing the number of police there), those agents are stopping people in the street and demanding ID (video upthread), they have shot people, they have tear gassed babies, I've read reports that they are ramming into vehicles and dragging out the occupants. They are generally doing stuff that was inevitably going to stir people up to protest. Trump has talked about using the insurrection act and he is pursuing the democratically elected governor and mayor through the courts.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/tim-walz-jacob-frey-subpoena-trump-doj-b2902588.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox9.com/news/children-hospitalized-flash-bang-hits-van-jan-15.amp

I really can't fathom why people are still defending Trump when he is threatening a NATO country. And although the situation in Venezuela was complex he did show he has a complete disregard for international law. The rhetoric is very much "might is right" and I think that belief is going to apply within the US as much as it does internationally. Anyone who believes he will walk away from the presidency at the end of this term is kidding themselves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/05/us/politics/stephen-miller-greenland-venezuela.html

“We live in a world, in the real world, Jake, that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power,” he said. “These are the iron laws of the world since the beginning of time.”

Legal experts blast DOJ investigation into Tim Walz and Jacob Frey as ‘total garbage’

Former prosecutors say DOJ has ‘lost its mind’ after alleging Minnesota leaders obstructed law enforcement in recent surge

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/tim-walz-jacob-frey-subpoena-trump-doj-b2902588.html

GaIadriel · 17/01/2026 17:28

Newbutoldfather · 17/01/2026 12:29

@KTheGrey ,

The U.S does have a unique position in the world, so what happens there affects everyone far more than most other conflicts. It also feeds into them.

I am still unsure over whether the U.S is just going through a less democratic phase in order to reverse some of the ‘wokeness’ which I do think was damaging, or is on a path to a far more autocratic and less democratic society.

If the latter, and Trump is happy to focus on ‘his’ hemisphere whilst letting China have the East and Europe to fend for herself, it is worrying.

And, if ICE become his personal militia, that would be a really dangerous and unpleasant precedent for all of us.

I do think Trump has confronted some real issues that previous incumbents have found difficult to deal with (open borders, drug crisis, subsidising NATO, growing semi-legalised anti semitism), but it has been at the expense of respect for democratic processes and institutions. ICE is a big example of this.

Some interesting points. We won't know whether 'the ends justified the means' for quite some time, and many would never agree either way.

Trump seems of the sentiment that you need to break some eggs to make an omelette and this could result in some pretty grievous political situations or might alternatively end up lowering overall crime whilst causing some atrocities along the way, some of which may have been avoidable.

It's impossible to determine how many lives have been saved through ICEs operations and how many future crimes prevented. They've defo busted people involved in things like human trafficking and paedophile rings.

GoodGriefCharlie · 17/01/2026 16:23

SuperbMum1 · 17/01/2026 14:00

I am not defending either Renee Good or the ICE agent. I am definitely not excusing Renee Good’s killing — it was absolutely horrendous and heart-breaking. I am just asking and answering questions. Why did she not see the gun? Why did she not stop when he pointed a gun at her or after he fired the first shot? The second and third shots fired by the agent through an open window may have looked at first indefensible, but may also have been an automatic reaction on the agent's part because Renee was still driving her vehicle. Did she really think she could escape? Why did she not stop? As others have suggested, after the first shot the car might have gone on and potentially injured or killed others. We don't know what she was intending to do.

However, unlike some people, I have not picked a side yet or concluded that the agent or Renee good are 100% guilty. I am trying to look at all the facts as best I can, including relevant Minnesota law. I only mentioned adrenaline in response to another poster’s question about why the agent appeared to be able to walk away relatively easily after possibly being hit. I wasn't trying to defend him.

Can I please ask you to stop saying “Renee Good was shot multiple times in the face”? Unfortunately, she was shot in the arm, the chest, and the side of her head. I’m not sure why people keep repeating that she was only shot in the face, as if the agent had unlimited time to deliberately aim only at her face because he obviously wanted to “execute her.”

The agent has had many death threats, so am sure someone will kill him soon and make him pay. That will make a lot of people very happy because we won't have to continue to to defend him or Renee Good.

I am heartbroken for her children. RIP Renee Good.

Edited

Can I please ask you to stop saying “Renee Good was shot multiple times in the face”? Unfortunately, she was shot in the arm, the chest, and the side of her head. I’m not sure why people keep repeating that she was only shot in the face, as if the agent had unlimited time to deliberately aim only at her face because he obviously wanted to “execute her.”

Sure, I’m not sure it makes it much better, though… she’s still dead. But if we’re talking about the more recent information that’s come out, she apparently did have a thready pulse and was alive during the time they were withholding medical care. So there’s that.

Look, it takes about 10 minutes to go and watch multiple, multiple videos of ICE and how they’re escalating violence, dragging people out of cars, screaming, conflicting orders at them (this is a tactic, go and Google ‘death box’ if you like), tear-gassing infants and children, it goes on and on.

I never thought I would say this, but in fact, this isn’t even our biggest problem. The pragmatic and calm, American historian, Heather Cox Richardson, posted her newsletter last night, I wouldn’t normally post such a long message, but this is really important. This impacts us all and honestly it’s terrifying. Heaven help us all.

January 16, 2026 (Friday)

Well, President Donald J. Trump finally has his Nobel Peace Prize. Yesterday, in a visit to the White House, Venezuela opposition leader María Corina Machado presented Trump with the Nobel Peace Prize medal the Norwegian Nobel Committee awarded to her in October 2025. Although the medal commemorating the prize can change hands, the committee and the Norwegian Nobel Institute have made it clear that “[o]nce a Nobel Prize is announced, it cannot be revoked, shared, or transferred to others.”

Asked today why he would want someone else’s Nobel Prize, he answered: “Well, she offered it to me. I thought it was very nice. She said, ‘You know, you've ended eight wars and nobody deserves this prize more than—in history—than you do.’ I thought it was a very nice gesture. And by the way, I think she's a very fine woman, and we'll be talking again.”

With all its members dressed in dark blue suits and red ties—Trump’s usual garb—the Florida Panthers hockey team presented Trump yesterday with a jersey bearing his name and the number 47, two championship rings, and a golden hockey stick. At the ceremony, Trump looked over at the gifts laid out beside the podium at which he was speaking, and told the audience: “I heard they have a little surprise. Ooh, that looks nice. I hope it's the stick and not just the shirt. That stick looks beautiful. That looks beautiful. Maybe I get both, who the hell knows. I'm president, I'll just take ‘em.”

And then, of course, Trump says he wants Greenland, a resource-rich autonomous island that is part of the Kingdom of Denmark. In a January 8, 2026, piece in the New Yorker, Susan Glasser noted that Trump dumbfounded his advisors in 2018 by suggesting a trade of Puerto Rico for Greenland and, in the fall of 2021, told Glasser and her husband, journalist Peter Baker, that he wanted Greenland as a piece of real estate.

“I’m in real estate,” he told them. “I look at a corner, I say, ‘I gotta get that store for the building that I’m building,’ et cetera. You know, it’s not that different. I love maps. And I always said, ‘Look at the size of this, it’s massive, and that should be part of the United States.’ ” He added, “It’s not different from a real-estate deal. It’s just a little bit larger, to put it mildly.” (Observers note that map projections often either minimize or exaggerate the true size of Greenland: it’s about three times the size of Texas.)

Trump announced his designs on Greenland as soon as he took office the second time, but talk about it quieted down until the administration attacked Venezuela and successfully extracted Venezuelan president Nicolás Maduro and his wife Cilia Flores. Then Trump turned back to his earlier demands.

Those threats against Greenland and therefore Denmark, a founding member of the defensive North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), directly attack the organization that has underpinned the rules-based international order that has helped to stabilize the world since World War II. As NATO allies, Greenland and the United States have always cooperated on defense matters—indeed, the U.S. Pituffik Space Base is operating in Greenland currently.

In an interview with New York Times reporters on January 7, Trump explained that he wants not simply to work with Greenland, as the U.S. has done successfully for decades, but to own it. “Ownership is very important,” he told David E. Sanger.

“Why is ownership important here?” Sanger asked.

“Because that’s what I feel is psychologically needed for success,” Trump answered. “I think that ownership gives you a thing that you can’t do, whether you’re talking about a lease or a treaty. Ownership gives you things and elements that you can’t get from just signing a document, that you can have a base.”

Katie Rogers asked: “Psychologically important to you or to the United States?”

Trump answered: “Psychologically important for me. Now, maybe another president would feel differently, but so far I’ve been right about everything.”

In a different part of the interview, Rogers asked Trump: “Do you see any checks on your power on the world stage? Is there anything that could stop you if you wanted to?” Trump answered: “Yeah, there is one thing. My own morality. My own mind. It’s the only thing that can stop me, and that’s very good.”

“Not international law?” asked Zolan Kanno-Youngs. “I don’t need international law,” Trump answered. “I’m not looking to hurt people. I’m not looking to kill people. I’ve ended—remember this, I’ve ended eight wars. Nobody else has ever done that. I’ve ended eight wars and didn’t get the Nobel Peace Prize. Pretty amazing.” After more discussion of his fantasy that he has ended eight wars,” Kanno-Youngs followed up: “But do you feel your administration needs to abide by international law on the global stage?”

“Yeah, I do,” Trump said. “You know, I do, but it depends what your definition of international law is.”

In The Atlantic, national security scholar Tom Nichols noted that Trump’s determination to seize Greenland from Denmark, a country with which the U.S. has been allied for more than two centuries, is “extraordinarily dangerous.” Nichols suggests that Trump might simply declare the U.S. owns Greenland and then dare anyone to disagree (much as he declared he won the 2020 presidential election). That could create a disastrous series of events that would “incinerate the NATO alliance.”

With that collapse, Russian president Vladimir Putin might well begin attacking other NATO members, particularly Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania (which together, Nichols notes, are about the size of Wisconsin.) If other NATO allies come to their aid, Europe would be at war, and “U.S. forces, like it or not, would find themselves in the middle of this bedlam.” Many of the countries are nuclear powers, and the chances of a “cataclysmic mistake or miscalculation” would grow greater every day. Meanwhile, China might reach for Taiwan, and South Korea and Japan would need to plan for the end of U.S. strategic power, likely with nuclear arms.

Trump is courting peril, Nichols writes. His obsessions “could lead not only to the collapse of [Americans’] standard of living but present a real danger to their lives, no matter where they live.”

Nichols’s concerns are not isolated. They echo those of Danish prime minister Mette Frederiksen, who warned that the U.S. seizure of Greenland would mean “the end of NATO.” Defense commissioner for the European Union Andrius Kubilius agreed.

And yet, on social media on Wednesday, Trump denied that his actions could hurt NATO. “Militarily, without the vast power of the United States,” his social media account posted, “NATO would not be an effective force or deterrent—Not even close! They know that, and so do I. NATO becomes far more formidable and effective with Greenland in the hands of the UNITED STATES.”

Later in the day, Danish foreign minister Lars Løkke Rasmussen and Greenlandic foreign minister Vivian Motzfeldt met with Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Vice President J.D. Vance, but the meeting left “fundamental disagreements” among the parties after Trump reiterated his conviction that the U.S. “really need[s]” Greenland.

Also on Wednesday, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, the Netherlands, Germany, and Sweden launched “Operation Arctic Endurance,” increasing their military presence in Greenland in order, as Germany’s defense ministry said, “to support Denmark in ensuring security in the region.”

An attack on Greenland is wildly unpopular in the United States. A Reuters/Ipsos poll from earlier this week found that just 17% of Americans approve of the U.S. efforts to acquire Greenland. Only 4% think it’s a good idea to take Greenland using military force. When asked about that poll on Wednesday, Trump called it “fake.” Bipartisan groups in Congress have tried to prevent any attack on Greenland by introducing measures that require congressional approval of such an attack, that prevent military action against NATO members, and that prohibit the use of federal funds for any invasion of a NATO member state or NATO-protected territory.

Democrats are outraged about Trump’s threats to undermine the entire post–World War II rules-based international order, and they note that Americans want lower health care costs and cheaper groceries, not Greenland.

Today eleven U.S. lawmakers, led by Senator Chris Coons (D-DE), are in Denmark, where they met with Danish prime minister Frederiksen and Greenland’s prime minister Jens-Frederik Nielsen. Nine Democrats and two Republicans sought to “lower the temperature” by assuring Denmark that the U.S. would not try to seize Greenland. Coons thanked the delegation’s hosts for “225 years of being a good and trusted ally and partner.”

Republican senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska told reporters that “support in Congress to acquire Greenland in any way is not there.” Her suggestion reflects the comment of Senate Armed Services Committee chair Roger Wicker (R-MS) after he met with the Danish envoys in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday. Wicker later said: "I think it has been made clear from our Danish friends and our friends in Greenland that that future does not include a negotiation” for the acquisition.

Representative Don Bacon (R-NE) went further, telling Wolf Blitzer of CNN that an attack on Greenland will lead to impeachment regardless of who is in control of Congress after the midterm elections.

“You don’t threaten a NATO ally. They’ve been a great ally. We’ve had bases on there since World War II. Denmark has fought with us—by our side—in Iraq and Afghanistan. So I feel it's incumbent on folks like me to speak up and say these threats and bullying of an ally are wrong. And just on the weird chance he's serious about invading Greenland, I want to let him know it will probably be the end of his presidency. Most Republicans know this is immoral and wrong, and we’re going to stand up against it…. I think it would lead to impeachment. Invading an ally…is a high crime and a misdemeanor.”

RingoJuice · 17/01/2026 16:12

EasternStandard · 17/01/2026 12:01

What was Biden’s justification for that?

Tbh it’s still unclear what they were trying to accomplish. Some say they were attempting to tackle inflation with cheaper labor (asylum seekers were given work permits, this became a huge pull factor) and it just got out of control.

This was a very interesting piece on it: www.nytimes.com/2025/12/07/us/politics/biden-immigration-trump.html

Ihavelostthegame · 17/01/2026 14:34

SuperbMum1 · 17/01/2026 14:00

I am not defending either Renee Good or the ICE agent. I am definitely not excusing Renee Good’s killing — it was absolutely horrendous and heart-breaking. I am just asking and answering questions. Why did she not see the gun? Why did she not stop when he pointed a gun at her or after he fired the first shot? The second and third shots fired by the agent through an open window may have looked at first indefensible, but may also have been an automatic reaction on the agent's part because Renee was still driving her vehicle. Did she really think she could escape? Why did she not stop? As others have suggested, after the first shot the car might have gone on and potentially injured or killed others. We don't know what she was intending to do.

However, unlike some people, I have not picked a side yet or concluded that the agent or Renee good are 100% guilty. I am trying to look at all the facts as best I can, including relevant Minnesota law. I only mentioned adrenaline in response to another poster’s question about why the agent appeared to be able to walk away relatively easily after possibly being hit. I wasn't trying to defend him.

Can I please ask you to stop saying “Renee Good was shot multiple times in the face”? Unfortunately, she was shot in the arm, the chest, and the side of her head. I’m not sure why people keep repeating that she was only shot in the face, as if the agent had unlimited time to deliberately aim only at her face because he obviously wanted to “execute her.”

The agent has had many death threats, so am sure someone will kill him soon and make him pay. That will make a lot of people very happy because we won't have to continue to to defend him or Renee Good.

I am heartbroken for her children. RIP Renee Good.

Edited

She probably didn’t see him till the last moment. She was in discussions with another ice agent who was approaching her car with the aim of pulling her out of it. She looks back in the review mirror to reverse and that is when the officer who shot her steps into her path. She’s dealing with the officer to her left whilst attempting to go right. So there is a good chance she didn’t see him or didn’t register what he was doing till split seconds before she was shot. It all escalated so so fast

Underthinker · 17/01/2026 14:06

Croakymccroakyvoice · 17/01/2026 13:49

This is what I suspect is really happening. If they can stir people up enough to protest enough then they can use that as an excuse to take control...

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1JK99Wpxqr/

A reminder that the political right doesn't have a monopoly on conspiracy theories.

SuperbMum1 · 17/01/2026 14:00

GoodGriefCharlie · 16/01/2026 22:22

Oh goodness, that internal bleeding, that sounds scary doesn’t it. It’s confusing, though how he was reported to have gone straight back to his house and to the hospital at the same time while the White House press office almost immediately confirmed he’d been released from hospital. All of the information released, before any type of investigation had occurred.

It must’ve been really hard for him to get appropriate treatment with all of that confusion! Luckily though, he’s alive. Whereas Renee Good was shot multiple times in the face. I’m really glad he was able to get such speedy treatment though, seeing as Renee was bleeding out in the car while a doctor was refused access.

Quick question for you, if asked a few years ago, would you imagine you’d be standing up for a man who would shot a woman in the face? Have you always thought this way, or has something changed recently?

Edited

I am not defending either Renee Good or the ICE agent. I am definitely not excusing Renee Good’s killing — it was absolutely horrendous and heart-breaking. I am just asking and answering questions. Why did she not see the gun? Why did she not stop when he pointed a gun at her or after he fired the first shot? The second and third shots fired by the agent through an open window may have looked at first indefensible, but may also have been an automatic reaction on the agent's part because Renee was still driving her vehicle. Did she really think she could escape? Why did she not stop? As others have suggested, after the first shot the car might have gone on and potentially injured or killed others. We don't know what she was intending to do.

However, unlike some people, I have not picked a side yet or concluded that the agent or Renee good are 100% guilty. I am trying to look at all the facts as best I can, including relevant Minnesota law. I only mentioned adrenaline in response to another poster’s question about why the agent appeared to be able to walk away relatively easily after possibly being hit. I wasn't trying to defend him.

Can I please ask you to stop saying “Renee Good was shot multiple times in the face”? Unfortunately, she was shot in the arm, the chest, and the side of her head. I’m not sure why people keep repeating that she was only shot in the face, as if the agent had unlimited time to deliberately aim only at her face because he obviously wanted to “execute her.”

The agent has had many death threats, so am sure someone will kill him soon and make him pay. That will make a lot of people very happy because we won't have to continue to to defend him or Renee Good.

I am heartbroken for her children. RIP Renee Good.

KTheGrey · 17/01/2026 13:24

Newbutoldfather · 17/01/2026 12:29

@KTheGrey ,

The U.S does have a unique position in the world, so what happens there affects everyone far more than most other conflicts. It also feeds into them.

I am still unsure over whether the U.S is just going through a less democratic phase in order to reverse some of the ‘wokeness’ which I do think was damaging, or is on a path to a far more autocratic and less democratic society.

If the latter, and Trump is happy to focus on ‘his’ hemisphere whilst letting China have the East and Europe to fend for herself, it is worrying.

And, if ICE become his personal militia, that would be a really dangerous and unpleasant precedent for all of us.

I do think Trump has confronted some real issues that previous incumbents have found difficult to deal with (open borders, drug crisis, subsidising NATO, growing semi-legalised anti semitism), but it has been at the expense of respect for democratic processes and institutions. ICE is a big example of this.

I think Trump is very old fashioned. He has talked about the Monroe doctrine and the US has a fierce tradition of militia and right to bear arms and is a much more violent society generally than our corner of the world. Also the US police often seem to be a law unto themselves. The ICE behaviour can be seen as a step back towards their norms (pre BLM) rather than a huge step towards authoritarianism that nobody could see coming.

America’s biggest problem is imo the lack of a coherent and sensible opposition. The democrats had four years to produce a convincing strategy for the US and they wasted it trying unsuccessfully to imprison Trump and to get a misfortunate old age pensioner with memory problems into the White House as a puppet President for a second run, and then putting forward the VP without proper process.

While the opposition consists of citizens annoying the men with guns the mess will continue. The Democrats should regroup and have a proper think.

Newbutoldfather · 17/01/2026 12:29

@KTheGrey ,

The U.S does have a unique position in the world, so what happens there affects everyone far more than most other conflicts. It also feeds into them.

I am still unsure over whether the U.S is just going through a less democratic phase in order to reverse some of the ‘wokeness’ which I do think was damaging, or is on a path to a far more autocratic and less democratic society.

If the latter, and Trump is happy to focus on ‘his’ hemisphere whilst letting China have the East and Europe to fend for herself, it is worrying.

And, if ICE become his personal militia, that would be a really dangerous and unpleasant precedent for all of us.

I do think Trump has confronted some real issues that previous incumbents have found difficult to deal with (open borders, drug crisis, subsidising NATO, growing semi-legalised anti semitism), but it has been at the expense of respect for democratic processes and institutions. ICE is a big example of this.

TorroFerney · 17/01/2026 12:18

TrishM80 · 15/01/2026 21:15

Can ICE just go up to a group of tourists on holiday in the US, especially if they're darker skinned say, and if they hear their foreign accents or language, harass them for their "papers" and arrest them if they don't have any identification on them? How bad is it exactly?

Not answering your question but we were in Rome in October and had a day trip to Pompeii, when we came out of one of the train stations there were police asking people who weren't Italian for their "papers". Husband had his driving licence, I had nothing apart from my Barclaycard, I did panic. Saw loads of tourists stopped but they all had id. I do wonder what would have had happened if neither of us had any id at all but I assumed we'd be detained. ICE probably wouldn't have taken my Barclaycard as ID I suspect.

Ihavelostthegame · 17/01/2026 12:18

There is a huge difference between targeted immigration enforcement and pulling people off the streets, rough handling them and refusing them legal representation
What do you think happens when you don’t leave willingly? How many warnings should they get?
Then find them lawfully and detain them. Which is not what ICE are doing. And detain them in lawful ways, go to court get a valid warrant and arrest them lawfully. Not pluck people out of moving vehicles leaving the unoccupied but moving car to roll down the street. Don’t target school pickup lines where you terrify all the children present. There are lawful ways of doing it without causing chaos on the streets and terror in communities.

If you are not white regardless of whether or not you are a US citizen, in the country legally or illegally you are a target
This isn’t true. It will look that way to you because the majority are not white. But plenty of illegal Irish/Russians for example have been caught too.
It is true. There have been numerous reports of racial slurs being used. Anyone whose face does not fit is far more likely to be targeted. To suggest otherwise is quite simply absurd.

They are recording license plates of protesters and then handing around outside the homes of those protesters to intimidate them
Actually they should be arrested since they are doing much more than peacefully protesting. You are not allowed to interfere with ICE operations
There is absolutely nothing illegal about protesting or recording ICE officers. In fact I believe the right to protest is bound in the constitution. The vast majority of people out protesting are doing so out of concern for their friends and neighbours and their community at large. There is nothing wrong or illegal in that.

There are ways and means of doing targeted immigration enforcement based on intelligence and following the letters of the law. Using trained agents. As proven by Obama’s administration
Obama caught people at the border, detained them in a specialized detainment facility, and deported them from there. They never set foot in the community for the most part although workplace raids took place as usual.
Biden fucked up by instituting catch and release, where millions have moved to sanctuary cities to wait for some court date (or not) and won’t leave, even when asked to do so.
So continue to do so. And use properly trained agents to lawfully and humanely find, detain and deport those who are not there legally. Use proper targeted enforcement. The biggest issue is the way ICE are conducting themselves and the way they are being used as a weapon to induce fear and create conflict. You are a fool if you cannot see what Trump is doing here. It’s classic divide and conquer. All done to create chaos so he has reason to use the insurrection act and delay the midterms. He is out of control.

EasternStandard · 17/01/2026 12:15

Underthinker · 17/01/2026 12:10

Thanks I hadnt seen that analysis by the NY Times. It does state at the end it's inconclusive as to whether the car contacted the agent.

What happened would need to be scrutinised in court. The issue being many on the jury would have pre decided due to articles such as the NYT one. Within hours they put out their take, and that too will be in line with an editorial stance / agenda.

So really it would be hard to conduct a trial with jurors that hadn’t already determined the outcome, which you mentioned below.

Underthinker · 17/01/2026 12:10

Croakymccroakyvoice · 17/01/2026 07:34

Not. Full breakdown and synchronised footage here...

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/17vTxMMEk7/

Thanks I hadnt seen that analysis by the NY Times. It does state at the end it's inconclusive as to whether the car contacted the agent.

KTheGrey · 17/01/2026 12:03

Why worry about ICE when there is such a smorgasbord of tasty world conflicts to choose from? I worry about global destabilisation but in terms of numbers ICE is small potatoes compared to Ukraine or Iran. Do you spose it’s cos it feels nearer because we are culturally so Americanised?

EasternStandard · 17/01/2026 12:01

RingoJuice · 17/01/2026 11:59

There is a huge difference between targeted immigration enforcement and pulling people off the streets, rough handling them and refusing them legal representation

What do you think happens when you don’t leave willingly? How many warnings should they get?

If you are not white regardless of whether or not you are a US citizen, in the country legally or illegally you are a target

This isn’t true. It will look that way to you because the majority are not white. But plenty of illegal Irish/Russians for example have been caught too.

They are recording license plates of protesters and then handing around outside the homes of those protesters to intimidate them

Actually they should be arrested since they are doing much more than peacefully protesting. You are not allowed to interfere with ICE operations

There are ways and means of doing targeted immigration enforcement based on intelligence and following the letters of the law. Using trained agents. As proven by Obama’s administration

Obama caught people at the border, detained them in a specialized detainment facility, and deported them from there. They never set foot in the community for the most part although workplace raids took place as usual.

Biden fucked up by instituting catch and release, where millions have moved to sanctuary cities to wait for some court date (or not) and won’t leave, even when asked to do so.

What was Biden’s justification for that?

RingoJuice · 17/01/2026 11:59

There is a huge difference between targeted immigration enforcement and pulling people off the streets, rough handling them and refusing them legal representation

What do you think happens when you don’t leave willingly? How many warnings should they get?

If you are not white regardless of whether or not you are a US citizen, in the country legally or illegally you are a target

This isn’t true. It will look that way to you because the majority are not white. But plenty of illegal Irish/Russians for example have been caught too.

They are recording license plates of protesters and then handing around outside the homes of those protesters to intimidate them

Actually they should be arrested since they are doing much more than peacefully protesting. You are not allowed to interfere with ICE operations

There are ways and means of doing targeted immigration enforcement based on intelligence and following the letters of the law. Using trained agents. As proven by Obama’s administration

Obama caught people at the border, detained them in a specialized detainment facility, and deported them from there. They never set foot in the community for the most part although workplace raids took place as usual.

Biden fucked up by instituting catch and release, where millions have moved to sanctuary cities to wait for some court date (or not) and won’t leave, even when asked to do so.

Ihavelostthegame · 17/01/2026 10:25

RingoJuice · 17/01/2026 06:07

And in relation to what Tim Walz is advising, do you think that German citizens should’ve remained quiet as the Gestapo got on with it all? And the rest of the world too?

So basically you think enforcing immigration law is akin to Nazism? Is this really where you want to go?

There is a huge difference between targeted immigration enforcement and pulling people off the streets, rough handling them and refusing them legal representation. What is going on in Minneapolis is not immigration enforcement it’s state sponsored terrorising of the entire community.
If you are not white regardless of whether or not you are a US citizen, in the country legally or illegally you are a target. Increasingly white Americans are being targeted too. They are recording license plates of protesters and then handing around outside the homes of those protesters to intimidate them.

There are ways and means of doing targeted immigration enforcement based on intelligence and following the letters of the law. Using trained agents. As proven by Obama’s administration.

This is not that. It’s is thuggery poorly disguised as immigration enforcement.

If you do a little reading around how the Nazi’s rose to power and the tactics they used you will find a lot of parallels.
Not to mention the fact that this administration is using Nazi slogans and music in their campaign.

EverythingGolden · 17/01/2026 09:30

RingoJuice · 17/01/2026 06:07

And in relation to what Tim Walz is advising, do you think that German citizens should’ve remained quiet as the Gestapo got on with it all? And the rest of the world too?

So basically you think enforcing immigration law is akin to Nazism? Is this really where you want to go?

I don’t want to live in an authoritarian state where the end always justifies the means no matter how brutal.

RingoJuice · 17/01/2026 08:30

Croakymccroakyvoice · 17/01/2026 07:45

You are aware Hilary got ~3 million more votes than Trump?

It’s not how the game is played. Otherwise you’d just campaign in California/Texas/Florida/NYC. Totally changes where the candidates target (recall HRC totally ignored Wisconsin because she thought it was in the bag)

The popular vote is an interesting data point, but it doesn’t really matter all that much.

Croakymccroakyvoice · 17/01/2026 07:45

GaIadriel · 17/01/2026 06:10

Tis kinda wild that the electorate keep voting a dictator back into power. They obviously see it as a lesser evil than being governed by Hillary Clinton!

You are aware Hilary got ~3 million more votes than Trump?

Croakymccroakyvoice · 17/01/2026 07:34

Underthinker · 16/01/2026 20:16

Do you believe the car struck the agent or not?

Not. Full breakdown and synchronised footage here...

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/17vTxMMEk7/

GaIadriel · 17/01/2026 06:10

Tis kinda wild that the electorate keep voting a dictator back into power. They obviously see it as a lesser evil than being governed by Hillary Clinton!

RingoJuice · 17/01/2026 06:07

And in relation to what Tim Walz is advising, do you think that German citizens should’ve remained quiet as the Gestapo got on with it all? And the rest of the world too?

So basically you think enforcing immigration law is akin to Nazism? Is this really where you want to go?

Swipe left for the next trending thread