Cried for 90 mins

Yeah I agree with that as well. This has gone wildly off tangent with all these warnings that if you give in and get up with your child early once then they'll learn a bad habit and wake up early forever more. It absolutely is a rare event for most children and probably in the OP's case too. In fact my son woke up much earlier than normal this morning and I got up with him then, and he had a longer nap to compensate, and his usual bedtime. I don't see why he would wake up early again tomorrow because of my actions.

Children who are comforted when upset at night do not turn into adults who can’t get themselves to sleep ffs.

Exactly.

Properly establishing boundaries takes hard work.

Ditto potty training.

You only have to read mumsnet, and indeed this thread. Didn’t you even say you don’t have enough sleep routinely?

More fool you for not dealing with the issue properly.

Ok. I‘m talking to the poster who got up for years.

Nobody has once said they roll over and go back to sleep. Stop making things up. You get up, you go in, you keep it dark, you reassure. But you do not get up and go downstairs and start your day. Because that’s actually the easy option - putting on the TV and giving in. I could be up and down for an hour reassuring and settling. But we did not get up. That’s the key.

Morning is 6am onwards. Ideally 7am. That’s reasonable.

These theoretical 'chronically sleep deprived kids' may have the same sleep needs as the PP you quoted, and be getting put to bed too early. Did you consider that? If so then the only victim is the parents, but possibly they are prioritising getting a long evening over getting a long night's sleep.

Although I’d probably start dropping the nap slowly rather than having less night time sleep but that’s me.

For the vast majority of children, a super early wake up will be a rare, one-off event. So no, it’s not a few hours of crying vs years of no sleep. It’s a few hours of crying vs a parent who can’t be arsed to get out of bend and see to their child.

Thats all it comes down to. The child could be soothed and comforted and encouraged back to sleep, but all that’s much harder work than just rolling over in bed and sticking your fingers in your ears isn’t it.

I can’t see anything wrong with your routine.

I’m talking about chronically sleep deprived children and parents getting up at 4 and calling it normal

I would absolutely hate to be dependant on someone else to be able to sleep. Imagine how frustrating that is.

My two are happy as Larry to fall into their beds at the end of the day. They’ve been taught from a very small age that their rooms are their sanctuaries, that they’re safe and cosy and that mummy and daddy are downstairs for anything urgent in the night. The eldest does naturally wake up at 7ish, the youngest would probably sleep until 8ish.

Every person has different sleep needs. My little boy will only sleep 11.5 hours in a 24 hour period (he’s two and this is in the normal range for this age). He sleeps 8pm-6am and has a 90 minute nap in the day. If I put him to bed at 6.30 he would be up and 4.30 and he would be screaming until he exhausted himself. I am all for boundaries and am very strict about him sleeping in his own cot, but it needs kept in line with what’s achievable.

You minimise it by saying 'a bit of crying', 90mins isn't 'a bit'. And 2-3 nights is just guesswork. What's the indication that they would learn after 2-3 nights? As someone said a long way upthread, not even people who advocate for sleep training say you should do it in the morning.

No I said I disagree with anybody getting up at 4am. Some kids may need a bit less sleep but 4am is not a good idea for anyone.

Of course children dictate what time morning is to some extent. If you wanted to lie in on the weekend would you leave your children in their cots until you were ready to get up? You can’t have children and just expect life to go on exactly as it did before. I used to have dinner around 8:30pm before I had children but they obviously couldn’t eat that late so we dine much earlier now. Was I allowing them to dictate to me, or just making reasonable adjustments?

Yep. Can’t quite believe what im
reading here.

It’s poor parenting and it’s our job to make sure our children have sufficient sleep…

I will never understand this.

Bit of crying (through defiance, not distress) for 2/3 nights vs years of rubbish sleep and dependence on a parent to sleep. I think that’s pretty neglectful.

Well you did change your mind earlier and concede that it's possible for a toddler to have had enough sleep by 4/5am. "They're all different" remember?

Hilarious how everyone being sleep deprived for years is better than a few nights of a bit of crying (with constant reassurance). Bizarre.

It’s about them getting a good night sleep and developing good sleep habits. It’s your job as a parent to help with this….

It’s ridiculous.

Children need proper routines and boundaries. Bedtime and morning times are set. 6:30 to 6:30 or 7 to 7, whatever.

Non-negotiable.

Lots of love and hugs and kisses and attention during the day. Bedtime. Go to sleep. If unsettled in the night, no in, reassure, leave. Quickly, quietly.

No faffing, in and out of parents’ bed, upstairs/downstairs, getting up AT FOUR OR FIVE AM, no.

Everyone is happier when they have a proper amount of sleep.

Mine never cried for more than a few minutes with a bit of settling. Then we were back to 7am.

Sleep is so important for everyone. And also having good sleep habits. Learning to settle back to sleep etc.

If he was awake from 4-6 I’d say he wasn’t tired and eventually exhausted himself out and fell back asleep after all the crying. You definitely woke him up even more by showing him your phone. I sleep trained my little boy so I’m not against crying, but I wouldn’t leave him for 90 minutes. My little boy has been waking up at 5 for a few days but I’m pretty sure he’s getting his back molars and they irritate him early in the morning as he goes into a light sleep, I just have to get up and start the day.

I was on my knees, I admit it, but I would never have left them to cry for over an hour as i couldn't physically stand it - I was also still breastfeeding at 2.5. I wouldn't be sleeping anyway. It also didn't last forever. You can have your opinion, like I had mine, it's absolutely fine.

Yeah I don't either, I regularly don't get enough sleep. I love my kids though and I've never left them alone to cry. That's more important to me than getting good sleep for the couple of years that they still sleep badly for. I suck it up and I manage and I get a decent night's sleep on the better nights.