To move pre-schools again: Third in two months?

I read a post saying they left their children upset amd crying at every drop off for over 2 years, and others joining in to normalise children "always" crying at drop off.

I just don't think that one way, the bright and breezy drop and run, is the only way or the right thing for all children.

My DTs are not my PFBs either, they're #2 and 3. My PFB scampered into preschool without ever looking back 😂 Sadly the wheels fell off the wagon for her very badly at primary, but she certainly wasn't anxious about going to a setting until she learnt how hard they were for her.

I believe really strongly in following your gut. If she's unhappy, upset,crying etc and it's becoming worse nor any help or compassion from the staff towards this then I would move her. It's not just about your daughter settling, it's also about you as the parents feeling confident in the staff to meet your child's needs.

The forest school nursery sounds a good fit. Personally I think I'd move her to the forest school as you said she would enjoy that setting and spend a long time researching and looking into school choices for when she starts as that's most important in making the right choice there and from my experience you need to ask parents their opinions as well as just going to a tour as they're sugar coated. Remember to trust your gut x

You making this an issue. Just leave the building as you hovering and she knowing that is unsettling. I'm surprised the nursery is allowing you to hang around for four weeks.

Why are you still hanging around 4 weeks in. That really won't be helping a d reinforces that she's "not OK".

Leave the premises every time. She'll settle much faster.

I don’t think you’re helping her by hanging out nearby, she will be feeding off your obvious anxiety and by being there, you’re giving her an out to really great involved. Most kids are absolutely fine once the parent is gone.

It seems like you should give her more time and give her confidence by showing you’re confident leaving her. Don’t hang around and watch her, leave her for a morning or whatever, if you want a gentle settling in, do shorter days rather than leaving her for 30 mins while you watch her. Frankly a super weird set up, I do not know anyone who has been so precious about leaving a DC at nursery. She’ll probably do better with a regular routine every day.

Forest school is amazing, but getting her settled in with her cohort to school will stand her in good stead. Could she do one day a week at forest school?

Personally, if you don't actually need the childcare, and she's not happy, pull her out and look again for the autumn term - particularly the forest school suggestion.
There are plenty of ways she can interact with people by going to groups and activities with you. She needs to feel safe and happy and if that's with you at the moment, then that's fine.
Both my children did very part-time preschool until they started school FT and are fine. They were both with me the rest of the time. One was shyer and the other more confident but it worked for them. Had they not been happy I would have pulled them out.

I think you should leave her in the second one and not hang around when you drop her off. She's 'not much futher.' What are you expecting? She's 3 (and presumably a PFB).
How many hours a week is she there? All three of my DC only ever attended pre-school (from 3 years old) in a morning before beginning school. It was private, but only around 500m from their primary so I knew at least 90% of DC would go on to there.
In those fifteen hours a week all I hoped for was that DC learned socialisation and a little independence. I also knew they'd then already know other DC when they took the more daunting step of beginning full-time school.
It was far more important to me that they happily mixed, played and were alright with being separated from me. I could top up any learning I felt necessary. It was the right decision.

It’s more important that she goes somewhere good that you have faith in, than that she has never had to move. I would never settle for a childcare I didn’t like just because I’d made the mistake of choosing the wrong one first.

A few weeks of being unsettled is better than a whole year of a childcare you aren’t comfortable with that she doesn’t enjoy.

Do a tour of the new places and see what you think of how they treat children who are having difficulty settling.

I have never worked at a nursery that's hands off. Child led certainly but staff still got involved so children's knowledge could be expanded.
OP, you need to give your daughter time to settle, especially if you are hoping she'll go to the attached school. Perhaps you can ask the staff if they can support her in playing and encourage her to mix with the other children. Even if they are hands off they should be supporting children to settle in.

It sounds very much like you're the anxious one Op, just leave her there, if you really must, then go and sit in your car so long as its out of everyones view.

I used to work at a nursery school and observed the children often became upset at mums leaving but they would settle down once they realised mum had finally left often with some distraction from me. She will pick up on your anxiety and the run up to you leaving will add to this. My advice is arrive say goodbye with a hug etc and try not to look concerned. Leave the building completely even if she is crying. It sounds harsh but she will settle down. I used to observe this with the children. Wish you well.

Could splitting provisions be an option depending on how many days she is going? Treat the forest school one as a one/two day club...
I have to say my experience of nursery is different ours have a small outdoor area, this week they got them bundled up and went to local cultural attraction, they do bubble water play in the garden, wellies puddle suits, walks outside, trips to care homes etc,

They guide DC and help them understand how to facilitate play

We did nursery from the age of 1 so very different ages to settle in, having this pre time with possible class mates seems like a good opportunity but just checking re the school....our local one is 'outstanding' and that would have been our preschool choice but when actually looking at the school....firm no. But if you've done your school tours in your local area then fair enough.

Ask to talk to her key person. Give them a crib sheet on your child .... can she bring her a favourite item in every day... can you do facepaint before hand... what is she like when someone else does drop offs....even now 3yrs in my DC gets upset leaving me, it's the separation either at home before GP take her to nursery or at the setting when I do

We made up magic routine, special cuddle, kiss, bumps etc, she has special toys waiting in the car every day to pick her up, we did a walk to and from setting to have that chatty outside time before and after ....

Just throwing a few things out there, good luck x

Some are free play. Doesn’t sound very exciting. If it is attached to the school I’d leave her for now, explain to her that teacher wants her to follow the rules. Some children read faces with much more fear than others, give it them, if she’s really attached to you, she’ll find it difficult to settle anywhere.
She’s probably feeding off you anxiety too.

At this age is normal each kid to play on their own or along each other but not with each other if that makes sense. It can take a while- especially since you’re stepping back very very slowly.

You are the issue as hard as that is to hear

I sent my kids to two nursery’s at same time- couple mornings in the one attached to their school and one I liked

Op, is nursery attached to a private school? The first one? We settled on one just like this but now I am worried it might be too late as they only take from 3! I just got back to work and we opted for a nanny instead. They do daily morning activities, music, art, swimming, messy play etc and then have the afternoons to themselves. I think it may just depend on your child. I have a sociable one (who is a bit younger than yours. I would probably not move her. Unless your gut is telling you it’s not right, leave her to settle.

Leaving quickly but for a short amount of time is better for settling than her staying longer but with you hanging around, in my experience (20 years... scary how old that makes me lol)

I did say that they play if the child asks them to.

Maybe I didn't explain it well. What I mean is that staff won't eg set up a tea party and put children on chairs around the table and have them take part. They will set it up and suggest to children that they play but if they choose not to, they won't force it.

They won't make children join in if they don't want to and they gently nudge rather than make the play happen - unless a child wants the adult to play.

I'm really just responding to OP wondering why her daughter doesn't seem to be playing with staff. If daughter has made it clear she doesn't want to, they won't force it.

I think trust your gut OP but will add it takes most pre schoolers 4 to 6 weeks to settle in to a new term/new school in my experience.
MY DS went to creche part time at 3 and never settled - cried at drop off every morning at 18m.....everyone told me it was normal and he'd grow out of it but he didn't
At 2yo I moved him to a montessori pre school which he hated. Cried every morning - they didn't like him and, it was a horrible experience and the wrong setting for him. After 4 months I moved him to a small pre school - 8 kids per class, 2 teachers and he went in on his first day never looked back and had a brilliant time. Unfortunately they only catered up to age 4 so the. I moved him a few months later to a preschool adjoining a main school and he loves it. So 4 moves in 12 months. In the right setting you DD will thrive - if you think this isn't it then consider moving

I’m sorry to hear the first setting wasn’t a success. Sadly, this probably made your daughter a little more hesitant to throw herself into the new setting you’re concerned about. But moving isn’t going to show her that nursery is a safe and fun place. She probably just needs time to build relationships with the adults and kids around her.

You asked about leaving and trying to make it easier. Again, these things can take time but there are various tricks I’ve seen that I’ve used with my kids.

• Books like ‘the invisible string’ discuss always being connected to people you love. I think it’s really important to do a lot of prep/discussion away from school about being apart and stories can help those conversations.
• Stamp your hand and hers and say it connects you when you’re apart. A physical symbol that reminds her of you could help her feel closer to you.
• validate her feelings if she says she misses you/is sad. Say it’s hard to be away from people you love. Trying to see ‘the bright side’ immediately can confuse kids as they don’t feel heard. Tell her you miss her too and your favourite thing is coming to get her and hearing about what she’s done.
• reassure her anytime you leave her (at school or with your partner (or anyone else)) that “mummy always come back”. Then say it at drop off every day. Keep it as part of a short goodbye - “I love you. Mummy always comes back”.
• Say you have a mini her in your heart and she has a mini mummy and daddy in hers. You’re always there loving her even if she can’t see you. Again, talk about this away from school. She may want other tiny people in her heart - my DS, for example, says it about his grandparents sometimes too.
• finally, don’t hang around. She needs to know you believe she can do it. You hovering isn’t going to make her feel like she’s ’got this’. So have your goodbye ready, give her a big hug and then leave. Most kids do way better once they’re left to it!

Obviously you don’t have to use all of this - they’ll be some she responds to more than others. I use a couple of these with my DS (who started preschool in September aged 3.5) and he seems to have settled really well.

I think swapping settings again could be much more damaging to her confidence and you need to give it more time and have some really consistent messaging so she knows that you always come back. And when you pick her up, don’t let her get even a whiff of your worries that she’s not settling! Say something about a cool toy you spotted or how you overheard her teacher saying how great she was at something. Really try and paint her school as this amazing place full of friendly people and exciting toys!

To add, the best early years settings I’ve seen encourage some stay and play sessions with parents before a gradual settling in process. Some children don’t even give their parents a backwards glance; some need to repeatedly “check in”. By the time they have to be left alone there, they are happy and settled. I agree that you go and come back and that’s how she’ll learn to get on with things in life.

I asked to speak to the manager, assuming a misunderstanding had occurred, but she admitted she had got angry as my child hadn't joined in with tidy up time

I'd like to clarify.

Did she actually use the words, "I got/was angry," because, if she did, then I hope you took it further.

I would be very concerned about a childcare worker who became 'angry' at such a young child for such a trivial reason so soon after starting.

If it was just hyperbole, I wish people wouldn't do that on threads about schools/nurseries because people end up responding to events that didn't actually occur.

Being angry at a 3 year old would be concerning. Issuing an age appropriate consequence would be reasonable.

Any tips for how I leave? I go out to the little parent area so she knows I'm nearby, and if she lets me go without screaming I've been offering a treat on the way home, but since Christmas that isn't working and she just begs me to stay! I'm happy to leave if she's playing but it seems so mean when she's clearly scared and uncomfortable!

Once she is in and safe, it is better to just leave.

Children receive mixed messages when parents hang around because, in the child's eyes, their parent might take them home if they're still there. That doesn't mean they don't like it there. Just that home is familiar and comfortable and mummy is there.

In reality, it's a bit 'out of sight; out of mind' and, once parents have gone, children usually settle very quickly and are easily consoled by their teacher/key worker.

Obviously, some children don't settle at all and it might just be the wrong time for them.

It is really distressing when your child is that upset but I've never seen a child personally who hasn't settled within a few mins at most.

Hi op why are you still there after 4 weeks you’re probably hindering her time there. It’s you who has to walk away then at collection time you ask how she’s been. If she knows your just outside she won’t settle she needs to play and enjoy her time there but you popping in and out isn’t helping her. Honestly let her be.