Is this a (financially) middle class household these days or not?

‘Middle class’ is a con aimed at getting working people not to see where their interests lie, & at undermining solidarity.

if you have enough capital to live on the income that is generated by it, you are upper class/rentier/ capitalist class/parasite class - whatever you want to call it.

If you don’t, you’re working class.

In the example given, the £350,000 capital mentioned is tied up in the home. It does not bring in an income. Assuming the income mentioned is from a salary for work performed, this person is working class - just with a bit more financial cushion against disaster than many working class people. Fundamentally though this person is dependent on selling their labour to make ends meet, so they remain working class even if they shop at Waitrose.

If however the income referred to comes from eg rental property, or dividends (which I don’t think is the case, though) this person is upper class/capitalist class/ whatever. They do not need to sell their labour to make ends meet.

Earning a high income does not erase anyone's childhood experience but the children of high earners will invariably be middle-class with few exceptions.

£1000 a month mortgage
Have you seen what £1000 a month gets you in rent nowadays? Fuck all ...it's disgusting really.

You say it's £3k disposable income after bills. Doesn't really signify class but it does signify a massive humble brag.

I do sort of get that but I don’t understand why so many people are labelling themselves as middle class as some sort of badge of honour

why do people care these days?

What do you mean, they are middle class because they HAVE a mortgage as opposed to renting?

Or that they are middle class because their mortgage is high at £1000 a month?

Or that they are middle class because their mortgage is low at £1000 a month?

We have no mortgage, does that make us middle class or not? Does it depend on whether we are renting or we have paid it off?

Yes, exactly. And you can afford it. Middle-class.

But would you expect her to pay a higher mortgage? Because £1k a month is a lot of your job is at all precarious

Yeah but education and working in certain sectors does I’m afraid. See eg Keir Starmer. You can grow up in a working class household but once you go to uni and work as a lawyer you personally are not working class even if your background is. Lots of people love thinking they are working class when they’re not though, almost like it’s some sort of badge of honour.

My son pays more than that in rent each month for a tiny one bed flat and his income is a fraction of that

My mother was a stay at home mum and my dad was constantly doing different jobs although is he relevant when they divorced when I was 5? Grew up in a large house although it was rented. Mothers hobbies were what gets described as pretentiously middle class online but then dad was the opposite. Found out I was pregnant at 15 (apparently this is peak peasant 😂) but speak with a relatively posh accent.

Honestly the more class threads I read the more confused I become

Well, there are a lot of ways used to sort people by class in the U.K.

probably the simplest is:
if you’re aristocracy you probably are aware of it. Title in the family somewhere and a big country like that your family may or may not own anymore.

if you are underclass/precariat you probably know about it. Grew up on benefits, parent (or parents if you had two) constantly worried about money, you never had money for school trips, new clothes etc.

anything other than those two is the middling sort.

there’s more detailed ways of classifying people than this but this is a start.

Your lifestyle and your roots are not necessarily the same thing. A solidly middle class person (eg Emma Thompson) will always give off that vibe even if they no longer had two pennies to rub together. Same with working class - Gary Oldman, Ray Winstone.

It depends how the money is made, working in an office environment with a university degree = middle class, runs a skip hire business = working class.

My in-laws have a much larger and more expensive house and more disposable income than my parents, but they’re definitely working class, both working in manual jobs, whereas my parents are both university educated professionals in not very well paid sectors.

I'd expect a better house on that wage if you're so worried about class.
We bring home ...christ just realised over £6k but live in a mortgage free semi worth £350k. I dont give a shit about class but if you wanted to split hairs, my birth situation actually means I'm pretty top tier as landowners. However I chose to pave my own way.

so you went to uni and did really well and are now a senior party at a law firm well done and I mean that

I'm doing ok after going to uni. My parents are working class, if my children do better than me at private school etc then they could be middle class, I never will be

A great job is fantastic. That alone doesn’t make you middle class. See my comment that my old boss worth £12m saw herself as working class with money

We haven’t been married long and what happens if we divorce. Idk I see people saying they’re working class or middle class because of how they grew up and I genuinely don’t know how they know unless it’s like super obvious. Then you add in the hobby stuff

Social class isn't just about income. What is the occupation? Level of education? Social background?

I have multiple university degrees, highest being a doctorate, work in a professional occupation but still consider myself to be of working class background as my parents/ancestors had working class/trades person jobs and I was raised by a single mother in a council house. Although in fairness mum trained to be a tailor in a Saville Row fashion house in the 60s, so I guess there is variety, even within the working classes

I grew up in a house that was originally a council house (my parents bought it off the council when I was about 10). We never had a lot of spare money, DF had been married previously and paid spousal maintenance to his ex wife for the majority of her life. We had an old car and no foreign holidays and no new clothes, all second hand. DM worked part time most of her life as she looked after us and then was a carer for other family members.

however DM and DF were both teachers, both went to university. They had passed the 11+ and went to grammar schools. So although we had a lot less money than a lot of my friends, I definitely had a mainly middle class upbringing.

Class is more about education and type of job that it is about money IMO. I now have a firmly middle class (professional, regulated) job but know that I earn less than the builder who has been doing our recent extension. We both work for a living but he would probably say he’s working class and I would say I’m middle class even though he has more money and drives a much nicer car than me 😂

It's not huge relative to income and equity. First time buyers today are spending around 39% of their monthly income on their mortgage, and general advice is not to exceed 28% of monthly income. In your example the mortgage is about 20% of monthly income, which is a much better ratio than the national average, and there is significant equity in the property.

So yes on paper this is a very middle class income, albeit class is a nebulous concept defined by more than income.

@Zobra what did your parents do for work? That’s meant to be the test!

The mortgage payment means squat (other than the privilege of being on the housing ladder).

I currently pay around £800 per month on mine, but I could ring them tomorrow and add another 15+ years to the term and bring it right down. Or I could take 3-5 years off the term and put the monthly payment up. So the payment itself is meaningless.

But that’s not how class is defined. Rich does not equal upper class. The middle class can definitely be renting.

You're not serious?! I was paying £1200 as a single adult and only taking home £2500 after tax. I was absolutely skint and on the bones of my arse for nearly 2yrs!!!

Middle class as you’re married to a man with a good job. Having a child at 16 isn’t a determinant of class. Or you could have grown up working class but now be middle class due to your marriage.