To pull DS from his school

Maybe he’s just an angry teenager who is pushing the boundaries. That could be the something

Absolutely this. There would be a huge wait if you ask school to refer. If you can afford to, pay private. Get to the bottom of what if anything is underlying this for him.

How did he do academically in primary eg SATs etc

does he have friends and what are they like?

does he have hobbies ?

You need a plan for your son. What does he want to do when he leaves school? He needs a goal. Likelihood at this moment in time he will need college or an apprenticeship for when he finishes Year 11. Get him work experience in that field if possible. Giving him goals and a focus, although this is a long term one, can help massively.

Kindly, your daughter and yourself need to suck it up. The focus here needs to be on your son and helping him. Not on your embarrassment.

Have school tried turning it on its head? So putting him on report for praise only comments? Has your son got one person he can go and see when he's feeling like this? You need to push and not just accept what school are offering.

Also, where is dad in all of this? I mean this kindly, but a mixture of hormones and life events can really hit home during the teen years and they won't understand why. If SEN was being masked, hormones can really increase behaviours. I would advise therapy, a safe place for him to talk and maybe work through his feelings of frustration and rebelling to being asked to do things.

Changing schools- it could help. However chances that as your son has a pattern of not following basic instructions (staying in class, getting changed, not throwing), that moving schools and having a whole new setting of rules, teachers no relationships with friends or staff, and the overwhelm of starting somewhere new- this is going to overwhelm him. He might be able to contain himself to begin with, however, again, no actual support would be in place to help your son make good choices and not return to his normal patterns of bad choices.

If I was you I would start trying to make conversations about school positive. Is there one subject he likes, so you can email the teacher and get positive feedback? If all he hears is negative that those are the labels he will fulfill.

It isn't my parenting, I have an older DD and she isn't like this nor is his twin.

I disagree.

The behaviour you're calling "low level" is actually high level. All of the examples you gave would require SLT intervention. He can't just do what he wants. And you undermining the school by saying the punishments are OTT is contributing to the problem.

You're moaning that they are using punishments and not support, what support are you giving him? You're more concerned about his sibling being embarrassed and you want to pull him out of the school for her sake. Nothing at all about what you plan to do to help him.

Take some responsibility and help your son by working with the school and not against them.

I understand it’s hard for your dd to hear but that’s your ds’ problem. If he wasn’t behaving in this manner then she wouldn’t be bothered with it. Remind her to just walk away and not react to people telling her.

You need to get to the bottom of his behaviour. A lot of the stuff you mentioned isn’t low level. He is being a big disruption in the classroom, throwing things, ripping up books and storming out of lessons requires the teacher to intervene and is then disrupting everyone else’s learning. The school are coming down hard on him because he has shown that his behaviour can become worse than just chatting in class and not listening.

When did his behaviour start? You mention he’s like this at home, has anything changed? You can’t compare him to your DD’s because they are not the same.

Personally I would be arranging a meeting with the school to decide what next. I don’t want to label his behaviour but maybe an assessment with an educational psychologist would be beneficial.
Taking him out of school and moving may not be the answer. His poor behaviour is communication for something right now so you need to focus on this. Moving him may make the behaviour worse.

That’s a rude and badly behaved child. Those aren’t low level, they are acts of defiance.

I was a secondary school teacher and kids like your son were a nightmare when trying to teach 30 other kids.

I think you need a reality check.

Schools do talk to one another so which ever school you move him to they'll find out that he's having no discipline at home

@FoxyDash

1. Is his father in his life?
2. Does he have any positive male influences/role models in his life?
3. Does he have friends?
4. What is he like academically? Is he bright, or can he struggle with work?
5. What was he like in primary school?
6. Does he have any hobbies?

You need to get to the root cause of what is making him behave this way. Kids don’t just act out and be violent for no reason. Because, it’s obvious he’s dealing with something internally and doesn’t care about punishments and consequences.

Do you talk to him? Can you get him alone, in a safe space to try and open up to you?

What are you doing to address deal with his behaviour? If you dont see any signs if neurodivergents then its a behaviour issue and its time to step up and manage his behaviour.

The school won't provide support for a behaviour issue as they are not his parent. Most of what you describe is not low level. Its constant poor behaviour and him disrupting other pupils continuously. I work in a secondary school and can assure you his behaviour is having a serious knock on effect on other pupils. Changing his school will not help his behaviour although it may make school a more pleasant experience for your dd as she wont have to hear constant complaints about her sibling.

Have you checked in with him to see if anything’s happened with him? Is he safe online? Rather than just jump to an ASD diagnosis, I’d do more digging first.

Surely you need to speak to the school and have multiple meetings with this school, teachers, head, support staff etc, plus find an alternative, plus see the GP if he’s struggling and you expect a medical reason). Just making a knee jerk decision won’t help at all will it and will just cause serious disruption?

Ignore your daughters ‘embarrassment’, she will be fine - it’s really no reflection on her; I get the impression you are v worried about this aspect yet for him this entire thing is life changing perhaps.. speak to the school and ask what’s going on and what support can they give, meanwhile what are you doing at home to help improve everything???

I mean, I know you don’t think SEN but this is exactly how my teen with ASD presents when he’s dysregulated and struggling with school. You’ve basically written a checklist of what he does. When he’s managing school, he’s much more like the real him which is kind, funny and generally - not terribly autistic looking - so he would look like a badly behaviour child. But everything stems from his autism and needs handling completely differently.

Completely agree. Educational Psychologist can be organised through school, if not, go private. Organise a meeting with the school to discuss what they think they can do, ask for help. Its their job, and even though schools have limited resources for SEN etc there is help available - but you have to be very proactive to get it.

Help your boy, dont let it escalate.

What is happening at home when you get a call from school to say he’s walked out of a lesson or ripped up a book? What do you say to him? Does he get his phone removed or his Xbox? Does he have to miss going out either his mates?

I have taught for many years. Some kids who misbehave do have underlying issues but some just can’t be bothered either the work. I was an angel at school in some lessons but was a PITA in others. You need to get to the root cause of this or else nothing will ever change.

So what incentives are your other children being given to behave, that your son isnt getting?

Or is it just that your son is an insufferable immature muppet and the school are utterly fed up with him and all the drama he causes...

Imagine trying to teach 30 teenagers PE, whilst one throws a toddler tantrum because it's too cold to get changed. Ridiculous.

You need to be coming down on this like the proverbial, but you won't. You'll just keep blaming the school, then employer after employer, then the job centre, any partners too.... never your kid though.

You need to get to the bottom of his behaviour, and get him some support. School wont do much if there is no underlying medical/ emotional cause for his actions. I would suggest trying to get him assessed anyway.

There must be a reason why he is behaving like this? Putting him into another school wont change anything.

Sounds like your DS could benefit from seeing an education psychologist.
A bit of a deep dive into his educational profile strength weaknesses and why he does what he does.
They will also give suggestions such as if a change of school is worthwhile.
go private so it can get sorted quickly.

You've got to work out a way to get on top of his behaviour at home and at school fast. As for moving school - come up with a plan and discuss it with him - maybe he would value having a fresh start. If you push him into a change though clearly things will be worse not better.

It seems to nowadays!

I was a little shit at his age too and so I wouldn’t worry as such.

Changing schools at 14 would likely leave him feeling anxious and self conscious and make him play up more in the new school to overcome this.
He’ll have no friends and he may think the way to overcome this is to act out and get attention that way - be the class clown or cool kid.

If I were you I would discuss it with the school and see what’s best.
You can look into other schools and see if they’re an option. Perhaps ones that have extra curricular activities/courses that he would really enjoy and therefore want to behave.

Sometimes we all need a reset and a fresh start and a new school might be good for him.
But it also may not make any difference at all.

Have you spoken go him about it?

I may have missed something but why does your son leave lessons and tear books up? He is unlikely to reveal this information to adults at school because he won’t trust them. What does he say to you? Is he finding work difficult? Is work too easy? How is his reading? Does he get on with peers? Is there a past negative experience that is still affecting his ability to engage? You can potentially help him to navigate some of his difficulties and work with the school to support him better. Sorry but you’re going to have to be a bit proactive as a parent, school can’t do everything. He doesn’t have just one teacher for the day, he’s interacting with multiple adults and kids throughout the day. You are his one constant.

None of the issues are low-level. He sounds massively disruptive, no wonder your DD is embarrassed. Why are you downplaying it?

He needs some discipline and consequences, and help, fast.

So what are the consequences at home for his poor behaviour in school?

The problem being that passes are being demanded by parents - toilet passes, medical passes, Reset passes, SEN passes, etc. It’s like Piccadilly Circus in schools. Some pupils use them in every lesson and other pupils get fed up with the constant disruption in lessons. There are no staff to escort these pupils when they leave class, so they often wonder the corridors.

Kids dont act like this without something else going on under the surface.
Has the school tested for learning issues? Have you had him assessed for anxiety disorders and/or other neurodiverse conditions? I see you say you dont think it is adhd/Asd but that would need to be assessed by a professional. There are some children who score highly on camouflaging traits in ASD for example.
Does he sleep enough? Is he spending too much time on screens and not moving his body enough?
What have you done to help your son so far?
Helping your son will help your daughter.
When you have figured out what is going on then it may be worth changing schools. The school already think of him as a trouble maker so I doubt they have much interest in having a mindset change. Are there any schools in the area that are less punitive?