To find it hard to care about men's issues

But can you and @YourBreezyBiscuit at least accept that there are so many really basic things that men could change to make themselves better which would ease the 'male loneliness epidemic'? You are so busy defending them that you do not seem to want to acknowledge that we live in a different world now - and women have adapted, while men have not. Why is that? Why can they not accept that women no longer depend on them financially and that therefore the balance in relationships has changed?

At the very top of things they’ve been responsible for most technological progress that has lifted us from penury

Only because women weren’t allowed or were trapped in home carer roles while men were free to think explore and invent.

I agree it’s not all men. I think men are more variable in general. At the very top of things they’ve been responsible for most technological progress that has lifted us from penury. At the bottom they are invariably the ones causing misery and death, as a permanent tax to be paid.

(I suspect only half of that view will win many fans on MN!)

Again, when an educated intelligent woman climbs the corporate ladder. And doesn’t conform to society’s versions of success by marrying and having children that’s used by men to deter other females from following the same path.

This! This is the current discourse at the moment. The whole lonely crazy cat woman trope. Men trying to convince women they should have children and be home makers, not because they want women to have that choice and support them, but because they want to trap women into a life where it’s easier to control them.

I agree some of the comments here are disgraceful.

I think we agree 😉 As you said in your earlier post it doesn’t mean it’s all men though.

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
misandry
/mɪˈsandri/
noun
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex)

There is clear contempt and dislike of men all over this thread, and on the feminism board here. It is a well known phenomenon that men are disliked by many posters on Mumsnet, it is regularly pointed out on numerous threads. The fact that this misandry is being dismissed as not misandry but feminism demonstrates the overlap. I know many reasonable women who believe in equality for all but don't want to be labelled as feminists because many of the loud feminists are very open misandrists and are horrible even to other women who don't agree with their views. Unfortunately the few angry loud ones make more reasonable people not want to be associated with the label of feminist.

No, I won't be copying and pasting endless posts to provide you with enough evidence for you to agree that it is "many" as it is a total waste of my time. If you deny there is clear contempt for men on this thread, as you are doing, you simply don't want to see it and me wasting a few hours won't change that. However, it is clear to other posters as quite a few have pointed it out, they have clearly noticed what you are trying to deny.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter that you are trying to label everyone who recognises misandry here a misogynist who doesn't understand feminism. It is being called out by several posters, none of them clear misogynists. People reading the thread will see that and will know that actually they aren't misogynists for not agreeing with some of the vile statements made here and that is the important thing, not whether you change your mind or not.

On women being scared, I just don’t think that outweighs all the other harms to men from bad men.

On strangers helping, that seems to depend what type of bad situation it is. Men are more likely to help with practical or dangerous things it seems, and are more likely to help women than to help men.

On the death penalty, men seem to be consistently more in favour than women. I doubt that many people’s vote is swayed by the thought that they themselves may be at risk though.

Interesting that in medieval Europe about 1% of people per decade tended to be killed (large majority being men), between murders and judicial killings. I wonder if that served the function of getting rid of many of the most volatile people, in a way we don’t have today.

The main advantage is that women are scared and scared. Women think they need men to protect them and yet we all know factually that you’re more likely to be helped by a woman in a bad situation then you are a man.
But the perception is still strongly pushed by media filmmakers, etc
I agree I think it’s a society despite gender. Everybody would want the worst two or 4% of people Criminals locked up forever ideally removed it tends to be women that call for the death penalty more than men because they know that they probably wouldn’t be affected by it.

I have three sons, so yes I care. I think the constant pressure on men to be strong and valiant is tough. I’m glad it’s slowly changing through things like Andy’s Men’s Club but still a long way to go. They’re often unable to express their emotions to friends in the way women can freely so it gets trapped inside until they explode.

I also think if we don’t care about boys, we will inevitably damage females down the line. They both need equal care and time for different reasons.

I think that’s a really interesting answer, and I acknowledge that very bad men create some systemic advantages for median/good men. (Though I’m unclear how your claim about the legal system works).

But I’m unconvinced that those systemic advantages outweigh two big harms from bad men (which fall on everyone including men): i) the direct harms of violence, crime, etc, and ii) the systemic harms, which are absolutely legion. A massive proportion of the rules and restrictions we all face, and the taxes we all pay, exist because of the behaviours of the very worst people.

Having less competition for a job that involves going out at night is poor compensation for all that.

This isn’t an argument that men suffer more from the worst men than women do. But it is a claim that men suffer more than men benefit from the worst men.

If there were a proposal to permanently incarcerate, without tax cost, the worst 2% of people (or the worst 4% of men, which would be almost the same group), how many men do you think would be saying “no, let’s keep them around, think of all the benefits they bring us”? I think almost none.

Interesting. Can you tell me more about this? What does it mean-how are you defining misandry? How are you backing up that “many”?

Well you don’t really need to worry about them, but then writing them off is the same as a man saying menopause- so what?! We all should realise our hormones and bodies work against us later in life so we can’t do life as easily as when we’re younger and not assume everyone else is just being difficult!!

I think there are plenty of toxic behaviours that women are over-represented in. But I don’t think any of them come close to the levels of harm of wanton and murderous violence, which is overwhelmingly a man thing.

Interesting question about under what hypotheticals women might be worse.

I think if the physical strength advantage were reversed then the numbers might even up a bit. I think I’ve seen studies that say that the rate of domestic violence in lesbian relationships is high, for example. But I think there are also evolutionary drivers of why men are so much more violent than women (especially at the extreme tail) which stems from the different biological reproductive roles. Crudely put: at an individual level very violent men can have a lot of descendants by force. And at a societal level men are more disposable than women for maintaining a population, so having a portion of them be extreme risk-takers makes sense as an evolutionary strategy in a way that having extreme-risk-taking women never could.

Feminists are oppressing men on the basis of their sex? Where in the world do women hold that sort of power over men?

Misandry is a made up term coined by MRAs

Of course they aren't. But many feminists are misandrists too. Some are one but not the other but many are both and pointing that out does not make someone a misogynist, however much you want it to.

I have sons so I care about younger male issues however adult men can fuck off with their bullshit my father taught me to cook keep myself clean change light bulbs etc he never once thought that was beneath him my ex husband wouldn't even teach his son how to ride a bike and after 10+ years apart STILL expects me to do the wife work to keep him involved and informed when I tried he claimed I was harassing him (I asked ONCE if he was still coming to a hospital appointment his girlfriend threatened me with a police visit 😂) so I stopped i took on a tell once remind never approach now ive "alienated him" from his children 🤐 women cant win they are wrong for everything they do so a lot of us have taken to doing nothing i cant be blamed if im not doing anything and guess what? ITS STILL MY FAULT

Fuck this BULLSHIT

For the avoidance of doubt-misandry and feminism are not synonyms. However much misogynists try to say they are.

I care about myself, my family and friends. In precisely that order. The rest of the world can go to hell with their bullshit 'ishoos'. Most of those issues are self-caused due to their own stupidity, lack of common sense, lack of resilience and pure idleness. That goes for both men and women.

Not talking about actual issues like wars, famine, etc.

Nice strawman, but nobody is saying that. What we are saying is that men's problems are largely of their own making and in many ways relatively easy to fix with minor changes in behaviour. So why don't men make those changes then? Do only women have to take personal responsibility?

Same

Ha! When I was pregnant with b/b twins i lost count of the number of people saying 'what a shame at least one isn't a girl.'
I even had a random nutter literally rub my (fucking huge!!) belly and say 'be girls, be girls' like she was doing me a favour.
There is definitely a bias towards girls in this country although I accept that absolutely isn't the case worldwide.

That's because women who identify with one of those labels most often identifies with the other one too. They go hand in hand.

The vibe on the feminism board is definitely misandry, like all the posters here complaining about how much they hate men and don't give a shit about them. Anyone saying that about women would be called a misogynist, and rightly so. You can't have a group of women behaving that way and just call it feminism definitely not misandry!! You can't brush I HATE HALF OF THE POPULATION AND DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THEM AND THEIR SUICIDE RATE BECAUSE ITS THEIR OWN FAULT off as feminism. I know you're trying to buy you just can't.

As for gender disappointment, I can get it. Part of the reason I am childfree is that I do not want a daughter. If I could be guaranteed a son or sons I would have been willing to get pregnant. However, the way people have reacted when I have shared this has been with shock, to the extent that I haven't mentioned it in awhile! I would be very surprised if I'd had the same reaction if I said I only wanted a girl. In fact, I know I wouldn't. Several of my friends had gender disappointment with their boys, and weren't shy about saying so.

@Jade3450always important to check you are not using misandry and feminism as synonyms. It’s often done.