To be frustrated that DD is struggling to find a job in her desired field while her friends on skilled worker visas aren’t

Sounds like a case of sour grapes with a Farage(ist) undetone.

Other countries can be and are racist too by the way: making hiring decisions based simply on nationality or place of birth is racist.

If by racist you mean "unethically discriminatory" on the basis of nationality, then that's a matter of ethics and I'm not sure you'd have consensus that it's unethical. If you mean "unlawfully discriminatory" then it isn't; most immigration decisions are excluded from the Equality Act. Not all discrimination is impermissible: it is ageist to exclude adults from joining the Cubs for example but it's not illegal or unethical.

Also you realise Uk doctors migrate in large numbers to places like Australia and the USA, therefore “stealing the jobs” of the people born there?

Up to a point, Lord Copper. The RLMT was in place until 2021 - but that was at the same time as there was freedom of movement of workers between the UK and other European countries, and that freedom of movement remains in all countries which make up the European Union.

@AnnaFrithIt really isn’t. People have been moving to other countries for work since forever. The USA is a country entirely made up of people who emigrated there at some point. It’s really concerning that you’re a doctor (if true), if this is the level of intellect then no wonder people from other counties are beating you to a job.

I do think the doctors situation is probably an entirely different scenario and has clearly been an issue waiting in the wings for a long while, they aren’t just trained overnight - if on average there are only xyz number of training places available but zxy number of trained up junior doctors then something is clearly wrong with the numbers at that non consultant level - it may be that at a recruitment level there are issues with enough experienced consultants/surgeons etc and that’s again a different issue that may require overseas recruitment . I’m sure someone on here who is a doctor of many years knows the ins and out of this and can explain how it’s come about and the timeline - it’s a really specific job and not the same thing as coming in for a professional but non medical role .

Other countries can be and are racist too by the way: making hiring decisions based simply on nationality or place of birth is racist.

The real roots of the problem is actually the fact that the education system in the UK is utterly archaic and successive governments have utterly failed to support the development of a modern, skills-focused and technologically literate workforce. But yeah, let’s blame the “foreigners” eh?

An exhibition like that will certainly have Hawaiian involvement and cultural advisors.

Don’t be so disingenuous - that is not at all what you said. You went on and on about culture, language, accent and values. And if you are saying that working visas should only be granted if British citizens do not have the required skill set then actually you are now arguing with yourself. In your example UK-trained doctors are being overlooked as their counterparts are more skilled - meaning that UK-trained doctors are not able to do the required roles. So international recruitment should continue.

This is probably a very outing thread OP

To be honest, saying its 'racist' to suggest we should only grant working visas if there are no UK citizens available to do the job is probably not a bad way of frothing up support for Reform.

I think that’s highly likely.

There was one of those paid Munsnet posts appearing in my feed the past week asking me why I supported Reform, or something similar. They’re obviously here.

What self-righteous and sanctimonious guff, utterly failing to address the real roots of the problem and branding anyone who does as racist. That would include the BMA and the junior doctors btw, as this is one of the main issues they are striking about. With around 30,000 doctors applying for 10,000 training places this is a big problem. It's hugely expensive to train up young doctors, and then they hit this big bottleneck and cannot progress.

I don't think there is another country in the whole world who would not prioritise their own citizens in this situation.

No @Andiessock hasn’t. And she’s disappeared from her own thread.

Im beginning to suspect it was made up, in order to froth up anti-migrant feeling. After all, aren’t we all going to vote for Reform ?

This 'childish thinking' is standard immigration policy in most countries, including the USA as discussed above, and was in the UK until about five minutes ago.

I'm on the other side of this working in another European country in the culture sector as a non-citizen. I was hired because I had relevant experience and knowledge, many people in the sector are hired for their contacts or, where recent grads are concerned, specific interest in a particular field which they intend to pursue at PhD level and can bring something unique to the institute. Also lots of hiring on a personality basis, because it's a sector that relies a lot on networking. Maybe her friends just ticked more of those boxes than your DD

Has OP answered the question of if her DD actually even applied to either of the two jobs? Because if she didn’t it’s irrelevant. Friends applied for jobs and got them. DD applied for a different job and got that.

I’m not the one mentioning accents, culture and values in a thread about recruitment principles-that was you. Which, again, makes you racist.

Also they may be better at interviewing all else being equal? There are lots of variables not just Brit vs non brit

Why are you comparing different roles in different fields? (One of those roles seems far more suited to the one who obtained it than you daughter).

Why be bitter at other people’s success? Maybe they are simply better candidates, who target required roles better and are simply better than your daughter

I disagree but of course opinions vary.

I'm sure the tactic of companies and institutions is to do whatever's best for their bottom line.
Governments, however, should be acting in the interests of their citizens. It's not unreasonable to expect to expect a state to treat its citizens differently to non-citizens. Every country in the world does it!
Only in Britain would that expectation lead to accusations of racism! Can you really not see how ridiculous you are being?

Ah - just after I last recruited anyone !

I believe it was the 1st of January 2021 that the new points based system took effect which removed the need for employers to advertise for I believe it used to be 28 days and prove that there was no eligible British/settled candidate. This was due to the old Resident Labour Market Test being replaced with the new points-based skilled worker system.

It’s a degree where most struggle to get employment in that field, loads of posts in all the uni parent groups going back years.