Page 25 | In wanting Mumsnet to help Judi Dench and Joanna Lumley

GiantBranch · 2026-01-08T18:55:28+00:00

Last week, Israel [[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/israel-united-nations-norwegian-refugee-council-palestinians-doctors-without-borders-b2894091.html banned 37 international aid organisations ]]from operating in the strip, including Oxfam, Save the Children and Medicine Sans Frontieres (MSF). MSF delivers one in three of Gaza’s babies, and experts warn that immediate action must be taken to prevent a catastrophe. It has prompted more than 100 leading members of the arts, including Dames [[https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/judi-dench Judi Dench]], Imelda Staunton, Joanna Lumley, Sienna Miller, Suranne Jones and singer Paloma Faith, to sign a letter urging popular online platform Mumsnet to join them in demanding urgent government action ensuring maternity care is accessible in Gaza. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-israel-baby-birth-judi-dench-letter-b2896981.html

ktopfwcv · 09/01/2026 11:38

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 02:07

Mumsnet does already get involved in campaigns so not as weird a request to make as some posters consider.
here is a link to the campaign page

https://www.mumsnet.com/h/campaigns

So the point is to get HQ behind the campaign? I'll ask again then, why are they writing a public letter and why are they adding their names as celebrity as if to add some weight?

Original poster

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 11:30

LemonyCurd · 09/01/2026 11:23

I think that western activism on these issues, particularly when coupled with the same people holding particular other stances that always seem to be linked, illustrates well the idea of the victim hierarchy. In their view, anyone who holds certain minority characteristics, regardless of their actions, behaviours or beliefs, is less privileged, so therefore should be supported. There is no nuance beyond this. And it is generally self-serving for the activists in the sense they feel they are negating their own perceived privilege (e.g. self-imposed guilt) by ‘being vocal for others.’

Any complexity such as criminal behaviour on the part of those they see as the victims is completely forgiven under this model.

Show quote history

I am not sure I am understanding are you suggesting pregnant Palestinians are criminals or did I totally misread your post?and not worthy of support ??

OP posts:

LemonyCurd · 09/01/2026 11:23

whatwouldafeministdo · 09/01/2026 11:20

I very much think this.

I do think western activism on Gaza has probably hardened the Israeli position quite a lot and been VERY counterproductive. Activists also generally don't seem to understand the cultural context or Hamas as a group (and Hamas don't hide their opinions so I can only assume wilful ignorance).

And many UK activists don't seem to have a problem with making Jewish people in this country feel unsafe (including children), which I find highly unpleasant. I have experienced this directly.

I do have actual evidence as to why I think this and a reasoned argument, however I have absolutely no influence on Middle Eastern politics so I'm not going to outline it as I think it's ultimately pointless. Even if all MNetters agreed with me it wouldn't change a thing. We have enough problems for women and children here to deal with. It's a distraction and I think it's far more likely ill-thought through activism in this area will do more harm than good given the political climate.

Show quote history

I think that western activism on these issues, particularly when coupled with the same people holding particular other stances that always seem to be linked, illustrates well the idea of the victim hierarchy. In their view, anyone who holds certain minority characteristics, regardless of their actions, behaviours or beliefs, is less privileged, so therefore should be supported. There is no nuance beyond this. And it is generally self-serving for the activists in the sense they feel they are negating their own perceived privilege (e.g. self-imposed guilt) by ‘being vocal for others.’

Any complexity such as criminal behaviour on the part of those they see as the victims is completely forgiven under this model.

whatwouldafeministdo · 09/01/2026 11:20

Binus · 09/01/2026 11:01

I agree, I think some of the activism has been counterproductive. Reckon the pro-Palestinian movement might in time regret the decision to march again after the Yom Kippur attack, for example. That sort of thing is a gift. Sensible activism involves considering whether something is sensible as well as whether you think you're morally justified in doing it.

Show quote history

I very much think this.

I do think western activism on Gaza has probably hardened the Israeli position quite a lot and been VERY counterproductive. Activists also generally don't seem to understand the cultural context or Hamas as a group (and Hamas don't hide their opinions so I can only assume wilful ignorance).

And many UK activists don't seem to have a problem with making Jewish people in this country feel unsafe (including children), which I find highly unpleasant. I have experienced this directly.

I do have actual evidence as to why I think this and a reasoned argument, however I have absolutely no influence on Middle Eastern politics so I'm not going to outline it as I think it's ultimately pointless. Even if all MNetters agreed with me it wouldn't change a thing. We have enough problems for women and children here to deal with. It's a distraction and I think it's far more likely ill-thought through activism in this area will do more harm than good given the political climate.

LemonyCurd · 09/01/2026 11:17

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:43

Helping pregnant vulnerable women is a non partisan issue. It is simply basic humanity

Show quote history

Either you are being disingenuous or you don’t understand the nuance of the letter. Which is it?

Nyeaccident · 09/01/2026 11:07

MillicentFaucet · 09/01/2026 11:07

Cutted-up pear? 😁

Show quote history

MillicentFaucet · 09/01/2026 11:07

Nyeaccident · 09/01/2026 11:01

What is the eye roll in response to?

Show quote history

Cutted-up pear? 😁

Nyeaccident · 09/01/2026 11:01

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:56

🙄

What is the eye roll in response to?

whatwouldafeministdo · 09/01/2026 11:01

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:55

Sorry about that

Thanks for the apology. Genuinely.

Binus · 09/01/2026 11:01

whatwouldafeministdo · 09/01/2026 10:16

Also true. I do wonder sometimes how much the Israeli hard line has benefited in terms of support within Israel (i.e. their own voters) from ill-informed students shouting 'free palestine' and doing anti-semitic things on UK and US campuses very publicly.

I'm not convinced any of this is in any way actually helpful to Gazan mothers - through it's obviously beneficial to people who want to virtue signal, stoke their own egos, and feel smug about themselves - which brings us back to this letter signed by people who have the money and resources to go and volunteer directly or influence charities directly.

They might be exposed to nuance and difficult facts then, of course.

Show quote history

I agree, I think some of the activism has been counterproductive. Reckon the pro-Palestinian movement might in time regret the decision to march again after the Yom Kippur attack, for example. That sort of thing is a gift. Sensible activism involves considering whether something is sensible as well as whether you think you're morally justified in doing it.

MillicentFaucet · 09/01/2026 10:58

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:48

Anyway must to work it has definitely been eye opening on a number of levels, not the same site I was on 19 years ago when my first child was born. I feel sorry for Justine and her moderators with some of the kind off views expressed, I wish them luck

19 years ago eh?
I'd have believe that before the massive temper tantrum, what a stupid way to carry on.
Btw you're allowed to use full stops at the end of your sentences @GiantBranch we're old enough to cope and don't see it as aggressive the way you youngsters do.

Nyeaccident · 09/01/2026 10:57

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:48

Anyway must to work it has definitely been eye opening on a number of levels, not the same site I was on 19 years ago when my first child was born. I feel sorry for Justine and her moderators with some of the kind off views expressed, I wish them luck

Fascinating. Because we have politely expressed concern about the way a campaign has been conducted this means we are awful people?

Original poster

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:56

🙄

OP posts:

Nyeaccident · 09/01/2026 10:56

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:49

I am 100% a feminist always have been and my mother before me

Show quote history

Feminism isn't true feminism though if we are expected to all think the same things about everything.

Original poster

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:55

Bye off to work

OP posts:

Original poster

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:55

Sorry about that

OP posts:

whatwouldafeministdo · 09/01/2026 10:54

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:53

Didn’t attack just said I struggled to believe she was a feminist. Which is a statement of my feelings not an attack

Felt like an attack to me, which is a statement of my feelings.

Original poster

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:53

Didn’t attack just said I struggled to believe she was a feminist. Which is a statement of my feelings not an attack

OP posts:

whatwouldafeministdo · 09/01/2026 10:53

LemonyCurd · 09/01/2026 10:42

I would like Mumsnet to be politically neutral because all women regardless of view should be able to post here.

I do think this is important. Many women take the first steps to leave their abusers (and protect their children from their abusers) on here. It needs to be politically neutral as a platform for that reason alone. Obviously individual posters have free speech and can express political views within the terms of the site.

To be fair, I think Justine is quite aware of this and takes a responsible approach when she picks which campaigns to promote. And listens to her users.

Original poster

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:52

Not to you no

OP posts:

inkognitha · 09/01/2026 10:51

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:50

I am glad she is no longer around to see this increasingly nasty world

Then can you apologise to the woman you just attacked?
You have been the only one on this thread

Sausagenbacon · 09/01/2026 10:51

you really haven't been listening at all, have you?

Original poster

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:50

I am glad she is no longer around to see this increasingly nasty world

OP posts:

Original poster

GiantBranch · 09/01/2026 10:49

Sausagenbacon · 09/01/2026 10:46

I think that any poster who posts under the title 'In wanting Mumsnet to help Judi Dench and Joanna Lumley'
thinking that THAT will enthuse our ladybrains shouldn't give lectures on how to be a feminist.

I am 100% a feminist always have been and my mother before me

OP posts:

Sausagenbacon · 09/01/2026 10:48

oh, you mean posters disagreeing with you.
Never mind. Try NM the next time.