To not understand how people have an evening.

I don't know if by any offchance it was me who said we watch TV and then read/video games - but that is exactly what we do. And yes, we DO go to bed at gone midnight. Often we're still awake at 3 and we just cope on a small amount of sleep. Not always ideal, but I value my time more than my sleep haha.

Why does it take 1.5 hours to hoover, clean out a fireplace (max 15 minutes, surely?) and wipe the kitchen floor (5 minutes?)?
You are faffing, as everyone says. Kids empty school bags. Make packed lunches when you get home and kids can help whilst having snack. Instead of hoovering put dinner on so it is ready when DH gets home (he could cook at week-ends or you could both batch cook so dinner comes out of the freezer into fridge in the morning read to put in oven when you get home i.e. lasagne, curry etc).
Dishwasher can be loaded while DC finish dinner (and it's only 7-ish now) and get themselves ready for bed. Washing takes 5 minutes to put in machine, surely? Both can be emptied in the morning whilst breakfast is happening? Or load washing machine and put it on before leaving house in the morning, or buy one with a delay timer?
You are spending hours doing chores that take 5 minutes. Stop prioritising them and sit down.

I empathise, OP. We’re none of us machines so sometimes things do take longer than expected, especially if you have kids who have particular needs to make sure they’re eating well, staying organised etc. But I think there are some practical things you could try which would help ease the burden and allow you “systematise” things a bit more, and therefore lessen the load. Sorry if repeating PPs - I’ve read some of the thread but not all of it.

Thoughts:
. Go to Ikea or similar and buy some dishwasher safe plates, cutlery and baking trays. Eliminate the handwashing of dishes (save the hand painted plates etc for days when you have more time)
. Clear as you cook - put ingredients away as they’re used, and if your dishwasher is empty and open, it takes seconds to put the pans in once you’ve dished up. Dinner doesn’t go cold in that time. Then you’ve just got plates and cutlery to put in once everyone has finished eating.
. You mentioned following recipes which indicates that you’re making new things all the time. IME nobody minds repetition- I probably cook about 10-15 different dinners on rotation, and know how to cook them so there’s no consulting of recipe books.
. make sure your kitchen is arranged so that it’s really quick to empty the dishwasher - use the cupboards and drawers closest to the dishwasher for most things that need to be put away. I can pretty much swivel on the spot next to our dishwasher, to put 80% of things away, then I just have to walk a couple of steps to put pans away. This does genuinely make it a 5 minute job
. follow The Organised Mum method (or similar) to break down tasks into different days and minimise the amount of time you spend on cleaning tasks. If you struggle to stick to times (eg get distracted or feel things have to be perfect before you can stop), also try the TOM rocks podcasts (small monthly fee) - you clean along with them and they’re great to help you get the while house clean (to a “good enough” standard) in 30 minutes per day.
. folllow The Batch Lady For batch cooking ideas which go beyond mince. I don’t always love her recipes but the principles and ideas are all really helpful
. Enjoy the time you spend at the dinner table with your DCs and recognise that (as a PP said), that IS part of your evening. You’re making a conscious choice to spend that time with them, and that will diminish as they get older and they start spending their evenings more independently, so enjoy it while you have it.

I think some people are giving you hard time for no reason. We all like to do different chores to different standards and some of us are slower and some quicker.
Like someone on here said it takes to hoover the whole house top to bottom mins. That doesnt sound like it can be done properly to me.
Also lot of people say they would leave their child alone at the table, that would not be acceptable to some people.
Please dont feel like you are not at good or not as able as some of the posters are trying to say.

I don't understand how people aren't washing up

I don't own a dishwasher (3 DC, 2 cats) and it doesn't take me anywhere near as long as the OP to do the chores she lists, including packed lunches.

No way would I ever be hoovering in in the evening though, that is a weekend job for my 13yo (although with cats I go over the main carpeted living areas daily but that takes 15 mins!)

Half 6, I start work at 8am, so to get the 45 min commute in as well I leave the house at 7am. But this means definitely no time for chores before work! Husband gets up a bit later, he usually empties dishwasher while kids are eating breakfast and does a quick wipe round the kitchen, might pop a wash on, but when we aren't all home until 6pm or later, I can totally get why people don't have much of an evening. This is also why I don't work full time - on the days I don't work I do chores and eat earlier with the kids and my toddler doesn't go to childcare so I can be more of a fun mum (oldest is school age).

I do this too - as I'm cooking I wash up pan 1 while pan 2 is boiling, pan 2 while tray 3 is in the oven (and we use silicone mats to stop them getting too dirty).

I personally find it perfectly possible to finish clearing up/washing up after tea (and any related kitchen/dining clearing up) and then sit down by 9 at the latest (if I'm doing something with a DC before they go to bed). DH doesn't do it then, he does it after we've finished watching but I don't help him then. If he wants to be inefficient that's his problem.

The op hasn’t mentioned a show home nor doing housework of an evening. I agree with other posters that there is probably a lot of faffing. Also, at 8 and 12 the ops dc should definitely be involved in the evenings and making sure everything is done.

My house is clean and tidy, home cooked meals (from scratch) 5/7 nights and I still get an evening.

Last night I helped ds3 with some homework he had struggled with and helped ds2 with his application to 6th form plus he asked me my advice on his gcse revision cards so I do care about my dc education too so please don’t imply that those parents who ensure they have an evening don’t have the same standards as you.

Op - tonight it would be interesting for you to keep a note of everything you (and your dp and dc) do once home. Not to share on here but to be able to look in black and white at what is taking up so much time and see what you could change to be more efficient so that you get an evening? You could even set your phone up in the kitchen to record a typical evening. I bet you lots of little things that could easily be changed are mounting up which makes you have such a late night with no chilling out

I really struggle with motivation so I have quite tight things in place for after work with the dc.

Wow. Respect

DS does homework whilst I cook. DH feeds the cats and does the bins.

Eat and DH does the dishwasher.

If there’s a club or whatever one of us takes DS and the other throws the hoover around, or we both take him and use the time to go to the gym.

DS goes to bed at 8 or when we get in on club days and everything is done. I put a wash on just before bed and put in on the airer the next morning. Unload the dishwasher whilst waiting for kettle and toaster in the morning.

Usually do lunches in the morning but if making them the night before then I do them whilst cooking.

washing up, prepping lunches, putting washing on, unloading dishwasher

I have similar aged DC. DC1 is in charge of hoover, DC2 mopping. DC1 loads dishwasher and DC2 unloads. One feeds dogs, the other one cat and hamster. They each prep their own lunches and snacks. I am still doing laundry, but they sort and put away their own stuff. Each is also in charge of cooking for the family once per week.

But it’s possible to do all of this and have an evening. My home is always very tidy, clean and organised. I cook from scratch also. Last night I watched two episodes of my series 😂 and I was in bed for 9:30

Good god I would be a mess if I went to bed that late every night. Once or twice a week is fine possibly. I’m in bed for 9:30/9:45 and asleep by 10:00. Awake at 6:00/6:15.

what time do you get up at in the morning?

I’m the same, OP.

Loads of people will say you’re choosing not to have an evening, being a martyr, you don’t a “show-home”, etc.

The thing is - I do WANT a clean home, healthy meals and to be involved in my children’s education. So, I guess I’ve compromised that most of my time out of work will be spent on taking care of things.

It does get easier (mine are 11 & 15) and they do a lot of getting their stuff ready themselves now. And the less they need you, the more you can do things efficiently and save time. So I probably have one evening that’s free.

and I also claw back time for myself by staying up late doomscrolling!

My phrase for this is “you are being a busy fool”. By that I mean wasting time, faffing, doing things in a disorganised way. Being busy for the sake of it. Get some discipline and organise yourself.

I think you're getting a lot of stick here. My husband and I go to bed about half 11-midnight. We both work long hours and tend to get home at different times (I have a 45 minute commute, which means I also leave early in the morning) and by the time kids are picked up from childcare at 6, got them home and fed with some sandwiches or leftovers and got them in bed it's about half 7. One of us cooks our dinner while the other does bedtime, but we often don't eat until half 8-9pm. So we do chores after that, usually sat down by 10pm and then watch an hour or so of TV before bed.
We are both always tired.

Try using a slow cooker. Can make stews, curries, sausage casseroles- endless possibilities. Also think children possibly eating too late so too tired to eat.

It sounds like you spend a lot of time faffing about.

Unload the dishwasher whilst you're cooking dinner, reload it straight after dinner, put 12 yo in charge of making packed lunches for herself and 8yo. 8yo can help with loading and unloading dishwasher or put a load of laundry on if it really needs doing midweek.

I have an 8 year old and a 3 year old so a different set up to your needs but you could adapt. Either DH or I bring the children home from school around 4 (the other is still at work). The children do any homework or play. DS1 (8) lays the table and does water for everyone. He also unpacks his own bag/lunch box. I empty DS2s lunchbox and then play with the children or if DH is working from home take the dogs for a walk. Usually I start cooking at 5 and we have dinner at 5:30. If the other parent is home they will join. Sometimes (3 nights per week) we have hobbies for older DS or for us that we need to head out for, cubs, martial arts, dog training so this means everyone is fed before this.

I do the washing up while cooking for anything that won’t fit in the dishwasher. DS1 unloads it in the morning before school and we stack dirty plates etc as we use them. Pans used for cooking dinner are washed up after dinner and left to dry in the rack. DS2 goes up to bed at 6:45 and DS1 at 7:30. I do a quick hoover of the lounge and make their lunches for the next day. Usually done by 8.

I think the children’s input makes a massive difference. I’ll explain my children and how different their evenings are:

Eldest- gets asked to do his lunch, so he enters the kitchen, washes up his lunchbox stuff from the day before, remakes lunch, puts it all in the fridge, refills his water bottle and places it in his bag and he’s done. The rest of the evening is his to enjoy. It took a total of 10 minutes and it’s saved me having to do it. He’ll potentially even do my lunchbox washing up for me too.

Youngest- gets asked to do his lunch. We explain he’ll need to wash up his lunchbox stuff to have the relevant containers. Can’t find lunchbox. Insists he put it in his bag. Goes to make lunch anyway. Has a hissy fit because he can’t find containers (and he needs many as foods can’t touch, won’t eat sandwiches etc). Realises he needs lunchbox so goes to find it from random place he’d put it. Has a hissy fit because he has to wash up lunchbox. Forgets he’s making lunch and walks off to read a book. Is called back to make lunch, but now needs the toilet. Eventually comes back to make lunch. Washes up lunchbox stuff but takes 20 minutes because the water’s warm and nice to have his hands in. Dries up containers for next day’s lunch. Starts to get food out of the fridge. Forgets he’s making lunch and wonders off to the living room, puts the tv on and sits down. Has hissy fit because he’s been reminded it’s not screen time, it’s lunchbox making time. Decides he doesn’t want any of the food available. Can’t tell me what foods he actually would like for lunchboxes. Eventually gets some foods he wants and half preps them. Goes and gets colouring out and is reminded he’s not meant to be doing that now. Goes back to prepping lunch. Finally finishes lunch and has hissy fit because he’s realised he doesn’t want to clear up the mess he’s made. Goes back to playing in soapy water at sink for 20 minutes while repeatedly being told how to do it to get it done quicker. He then has zero free time in the evening and makes our evenings a lot more difficult than they need to be.

As you can probably tell.. youngest is being assessed for adhd. He is very much old enough to make his own lunchbox too. It would be so much easier to just do it for him but he’s at an age where he really needs to learn these simple life skills. But I think it shows that time management/ prioritising etc can be so different for everyone. If your kids are like my eldest then the evenings flow so much easier, if your kids are like my youngest, then I’m open to tips and advice 😅.

I get at home at approximately 5pm - straight away get dinner on (if adult daughter hasn’t started it as she finishes before me) My dc 15 and 11 have already got changed and put school clothes in laundry/set ready for next day, emptied lunch boxes and put in dishwasher (emptying dishwasher first if needed) and homework done. Dinner is generally 6-630 - 1 dc sets the table and the other is waiter whilst I serve up. After dinner the ‘waiter’ dc clears the table and wiped it down whilst the other dc loads the dishwasher. I then tidy the sides, wash up the odd thing that may need it (rare) and sweep the kitchen floor (quickly mopping it if needed) Wash goes in - set to finish the following morning for me to hang out at 6amish. And we are pretty much done by 1930! Fit in a bit of hoovering in the week. The dc take the bins out every night. That’s an average day for us.

I am just getting myself ready for work while the kids have breakfast and helping the 3yo dress and brushing her teeth and hair etc, and loudly reminding the older ones of the things they need to do approx 10 times per item, not doing extra household chores. We are basically madly sprinting out of the house a bit late every day as it is. I think lots of kids must just be much easier than mine…

Sorry if ive missed stuff ive not had time to read all the other pages but by the sounds of it there 2 children and 2 adults....why is there so much washing up?!
When i was a single parent on my own with two children I was still sitting down at 8ish after getting everything done, now my DP is around its even earlier.
I think they key is eating earlier, we always eat at 5pm (unless a kids club is on).
My youngest goes to bed at 7 (is now 6 but has done since she was 12 months old)
My 12 year old gets ready for bed at 8 (screens stop at 8) then reads or crafts til 8 30 then she goes to bed.
My 12 year old does her homework as soon as she comes in from school as it takes longer. I stopped helping her or supervising her in y5 as its her school work and responsibility, if she doesn't know how to do it then the teacher needs to be made aware, my youngest does her spellings and times tables rockstar with me after tea so 5.30ish at the table while I wash up/clean the kitchen.
6pm ish we all spend half an hour doing something together, a board game, colouring, craft or on the switch ps5, 6.30 my 6 year old gets ready for bed then we read.
I give myself from 7pm to 8pm to do jobs but honestly there isn't that many. Takes 5 mins to clean a bathroom. I hoover kitchen hall and lounge in 10 mins. Save the big hoovering for weekend. I do all our washing on a Fri, sat, sun and monday.
Sunday is strictly no jobs day. We do something fun as a family.
Something that has helped me massively in the last 2 years is a massive declutter so there is virtually no time wasted tidying before cleaning. Everything has its place, and the kids are very tidy too. So I could literally clean the whole house including hoover and mop in 1.5 hours as im not tidying. Its a 3 bed by the way so not massive but not tiny.

I think that family dinners are incredible important. That sitting and talking about the day matters. I would not be jumping up to start washing up etc while family are sitting and eating.
Please don't give in to those saying cut dinner short.

The thing that stands out from your post compared to when my kids were little is that you are home at 4, but don't eat until after 7, and don't finish until after 8. I assumed when I first saw your post that you were arriving home at 6.
That (late meal) and that alone is what means you have no evening.

When I was home at 4, and dh home at 6:30, dinner was on the table ready to eat at 6:30, and lunches/dishwasher/laundry etc has been done.
If your dh is the main cook, then he cooks at the weekend, and makes one/two meals in advance for during the week. It is unrealistic to arrive home at 6:30 and start cooking with young children.

OR you do everything the other way round. Assuming you are eating at 7, then before dinner, in that slot from 5-7 when kids are playing etc, you empty dishwasher (make this 8 year olds job?), clear away dry washing up, prep lunches, fold laundry etc.
So the only thing to do after dinner is pack dishwasher (10 minutes max) which could easily be 12 year olds job, and then do the washing up.
You cleaned the house in that slot today, but that doesn't need doing every day, so most days you can crack on with this stuff.

Also a bit of multi tasking - make lunches while doing dinner. Unpack dishwasher while kids are eating breakfast, put away last nights washing up while kids eat after school snakc etc.

The washing up as you go for the undishwashable pots and pans is 👌🏼

OP it takes less than a minute to put your pan under some hot water, stick a squeeze of fairy up liquid in it to start the process and clean it whenever you have a quick 10-30 seconds.
It really helps me