To not want to do a week with DHs family

I agree with this.

Are your children the youngest op?

I think this sort of holiday is more enjoyable for a six and eight year old rather than a two and four year old.

When they are stil very young, depending on the different personalities involved, having them miss their ordinary sleep schedule is just a pita for parents bc you pay for it ok other ways eg dc not eating, poor behaviour, broken nights etc. Later on when they are a couple of years older, thzy can be much more flexible and tolerate it better imho.

And as far as the pool goes, the distance from the house doesn’t make it any safer. It’s surprising how far a determined toddler can get under their own steam. So many fatal accidents happen when a toddler strays in to next door’s pool for example.

I've stayed in loads of villas in Europe and they've not had a fenced pool. That's why I'm so surprised at this thread.

We rarely stay in big hotels. More like small villa / apartment complexes or private villas. In Greece, Italy, Croatia, Malta.... None of them have ever had a fence round the pool?? And certainly no life guard! The parents just have to supervise the children!

Hotels and apartments where there is a communal pool are different (and most have lifeguards or very clearly advertise that they don’t have them!) but in most of Europe I think it is a legal requirement to have a fence around a pool if it is commercially rented out. Partially as a result of a pretty large number of accidents I think.

In the OP’s case it sounds like this is a family friend so no legal requirement but it would still worry me. Especially if the kids are still out and about in the evenings, young and non-swimmers. This is the part of the OP’s post I definitely agree with, I’d be relatively relaxed about the other stuff but not the pool.

OP, I do think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here because you don't enjoy these holidays with his family.

Kids staying up late / eating dinner late? That's what you do on holidays! Kids adjust and actually most kids love it. The UK is one of the only countries in the world who have a rigid "teatime" of 5-6pm for kids.

Unfenced pool? We've never had a fenced pool on any holiday we've been on! I'm sure that even if the adults are having a nice time and a drink, there will be people watching the kids in the pool. I really, really doubt that their dad (or any family member) will just be letter toddlers run and jump into a completely unsupervised swimming pool.

The children sleep on camp beds? Right..... and???

That said, their dad has said he's happy to go on his own and take the kids so let him! He isn't a teenage babysitter FFS, he is their other parent. Or, if you're really not comfortable with that then I think you need to go and just try to let your hair down and embrace a different culture for a week.

I really don't think it's fair to not let your kids go with him. It's his family and is lovely time for them to bond with other relatives and be fussed over. You wouldn't let your DH stop your kids spending time with your family would you?

I was just thinking this?! No hotels, villas, apartments that we've stayed in have EVER had a fenced pool?!

Also someone has probably suggested this but I would get your kids swimming and used to pool safety asap. Even the youngest, there are places where they can teach kids to roll on their backs and kick to the side of the pool when they are astonishingly young (private places I think). Of course this isn’t fail safe but it might help ease your worries a little bit.

Incidentally I am with you on the pool safety part and I would absolutely not leave my kids in the charge of other people for longer than 5 minutes at that age, especially when they were drinking. The other stuff (bedtimes/ eating late etc) I think are actually good for kids to get used to on occasion and likely to turn them into more civilised adults long term! As others have said, I’d have a pram/ pushchair with blanket close to the table so the kids can sleep in the evenings if necessary. I’d also take them out in the day in the pushchair as long as it’s not too hot so they can have a good nap.

I think this is sensible, combined with the suggestion to ease out by going for a few days. In those few days you can go off for a walk or to the shop (if there is one) solo. Nice and early in the morning when at least one kid has woken.

Tbh I get it like I wouldn’t want to go with my in laws sounds like he’ll. but I do think a late dinner on holiday is a non issue just change the routine and be flexible on holiday surely if you went away just your family you wouldn’t be eating at 6 and putting them to bed at 8. Can’t they have a snack and siesta? Sounds like they aren’t expected to sit at the table for the whole dinner so can get up and play. It sounds actually like a lovely childhood holiday - I appreciate not so much for you but I can see why your husband wants to do it. Can you not compromise on every other year and you relax a bit on the years you do go?

My DH is half French half Italian. We live in France so our kids grew up with family moments very similar to those you describe.

It's totally normal in much of Europe. And in my experience it's actually good for children. They grow up being used to sociable family moments. French and Italian culture are very child inclusive as opposed to modern UK culture which is what I would call child centered (too child centered in my opinion).
It's good for kids to adapt and to have fun with loving families. It's fine if they fall asleep on a sofa or on someone's lap or in a pram near the table. Try to embrace this culture and take the positives from it (of which there are many). I see a lot of French and Italian kids growing up to be adaptable, sociable, easy going about food and bedtimes and with a sense of family and joy about several generations gathering together.

In my British family I see a lot of more socially awkward kids who can come across as a bit selfish and sometimes even rude as they have grown up used to things being centered around them and their needs and wants being anticipated and met (although I think this is a class issue and more of a middle class phenomenon).

So I would say try to go with the flow. You are a family of 2 cultures. Embrace both.

Also French and Italian families are very used to being around open swimming pools. So it's not surprising that they are pretty relaxed and it. Just keep an eye on your kids and teach them to swim asap. DH and I never trusted other people to watch our kids and would also do a mindful handover as to which one of us was watching them.

I would have a work thing on that conflicts and leave him off alone. He is their father presumably he is going to have to massively step up and not let them drown if he goes alone FFS (if this is a problem then you have a much, much bigger problem) and he will have a proper dose of reality. Currently you are preventing him from being faced with your reality on these trips by covering over these issues doing all the work. If it works I’d continue the same every year.

She's only refused because she doesn't trust her DH to keep the kids safe around the pool. If he told her that he will always be the one watching them around the pool and that he won't be drinking, I'm sure that she would feel more relaxed about them going without her. As all the adults apart from OP are drinking all day, she doesn't trust them to keep the kids safe, particularly as the younger one is only two.

shes asking not to go to the villa with them as they go every year, I said shes allowed to ask for this. I have no idea if they ever holiday alone , I said shes ALLOWED to ask for holidays alone. And sometimes her needs do trump his, because she has attended the villa many times. Her husbands offer to her not to go is selfish solution. Your priority is your wife and kids not your extended family.

NCed for this. I totally get this OP. I am UK, married to a DH with a large family also from the UK, but who for a long time rented the UK equivalent of a villa for a week or two each summer. The houses were lovely, the kids absolutely loved it. However I personally found it absolute torture, even though I tried all the things PPs had suggested. Anything I ever suggested or tried to contribute wasn't welcome, especially cooking (which I am quite good at) so I just ended up doing a lot of washing up. It was the same when we spent a lot of money renting our own place next door as when we slept on campbeds in the main house.
In the end I had to just accept that my function in the group as an outsider who married in, was to be the symbolic person who acted as a sort of defining point for who was "in" the family and who wasn't. So after about 5 years I stopped going and stayed at home (ostensibly working). My DH went and looked after the DC. It was all fine, no-one commented (at least not to me, or DH didn't tell me). DH complained a bit about having to go on his own with DC but wanted to please his mother/family and our DC.
You could try going just for the weekend this year, to ease out of it, and come back on your own leaving the DC with DH, then the following year not go at all. Your DC will have a lovely time. You will have a lovely time ... not subjecting yourself to this holiday, and not performing the role of what someone else's vision of an acceptable mother and family member is.

Where does it say they never holiday without the inlaws? Have you seen how often they see her family? And why do her needs trump his? The older child is only 4, so this really cannot have been going on for so many years. Her husband has given her the option of not going and him taking the kids, which she has refused.

This is part of the deal when you marry someone from another culture and get to be in your home country 99% of the time.

For the sake of your husband and children, just go, it will be easier as your DC get older. You see your family all the time, he has the right to this. Make it a deal breaker that you and he supervise the pool time, and go and let him enjoy his time within his own culture.

let your DC experience and understand that part of their identity. Routines do go out the window on holiday, if your children need to eat a bit more in the day then let them.

he’s given you the option of not going if you don’t want to, how would you feel if he stopped the children seeing your family?

Yeah, I think you need to suck it up. Your kids will grow and most of these issues will go away very quickly. Things like routine and mealtimes seem massive when they’re toddlers but it’s only one week for a few short years and is it really worth driving a wedge between yourself and your husband and his family?

Shes allowed to ask for one family holiday or more without the inlaws Shes done plenty with his family. He needs to stop being selfish amd recognise her wishes as she has done for him. He is being unreasonable. Your holidays are irrelevant (not in a rude way) because its not your holiday in question, its ops. She doesn't want to do! Hes had his needs met year after year.

Also be thankful it’s Italy not Spain, dinner wouldn’t start until 10pm! Why not encourage the kids to sleep in or nap in the afternoon like local kids do?

You married a man from another country, it’s part of the deal. Kids being included in the evening is completely normal in most countries, we are the outliers, I’m sure the kids are just fine and will love it more as they get older. Approaching them about the pool issue I completely agree with though, safety concerns are legitimate, why not research an alternative option?

But husband sees his inlaws several times a week? And husband has said that op can stay at home. Some people like their family and wants to see them and wants their children to have a relationship also with that side of the family. Unfortunately visiting in laws (if you choose to do that) for more than a lunch is what you sign up for when marrying a foreigner.

Exactly. DH may have fond memories, but it doesn’t mean it was safe or desirable.

And the whole ‘sleep where you put them’ thing. I absolutely hated that as a child, being overtired and trying to get comfortable on two chairs, maybe covered by a coat. I vowed that DD would never have to do that.

When you marry a foreigner I feel like there are some things you have to accept. That includes feeling left out if you don't know the language, kids spending holidays abroad, you using your annual leave to cisit in laws and then some cultural aspects while at home and some others when abroad.

I feel like there are compromises to be made from both sides. One of the things the british is known for is putting kids to bed early. Not saying it is a bad thing, but it is out of the general norm. List the problems you have and think what you can let go on and what is non-negotiable and work from there. And what you need from your husband for you to feel comfortable for him to do this solo. It is kinda worrying you don't trust your husband/your husband isn't trustworthy so two of you need to work on that.

Let him take the kids then meet him out there halfway through. He can see what it’s like to do things by himself and you can have a break. Then when you arrive he will be more understanding and appreciative as well.

You can't go off "survivor bias" though. There were lots of things in my 70s childhood (kids piled in the boot for instance) that I look back on fondly, but I'm not doing with DD now.

If you'd grown up in a family where a toddler had drowned, wandered off and come to harm, you'd not be so blase (I didn't but as pp have said, it happens).