To not want to do a week with DHs family

Doesn't mean he can't get annoyed with all the social time they spend together. A bit like how the OP is annoyed about this even when it's her dh's family watching the kids at times on the holiday.

Seriously? Her kids are 4 and below. You saying they have to wait another 6 years before they can learn about Italian culture and stay up late? By then it will be too late.

No wonder the British voted for Brexit, with such narrow-mindedness.

Lots of children are capable of staying up late. That would be such a crappy excuse to use to avoid going on holiday.
Lots of families relax the routine when on holiday and I think it can actually be good for kids to learn to be flexible from a young age.

Go but stick to your own rules. Don't let them dictate anything that affects your kids.
Let them have a crappy holiday.

I think that your DH is bu the children are too young to stay up so late, they are not used to it, it would be different if they were 10 and 12, they can learn his culture when they are older. I would not go or let the children go alone with him.
Tell him that you want to go on holiday with your parents for a change.

Can you do alternate nights. So one night do the late night and meal tho I would offer snacks.

ans next night they have usual tea at 5 and bed at 7 and you eat at 8

most kids do have later nights on Holiday but will sleep in next day

Such rigid thinking on here, you have had years to adapt to this and now you really must, your children will benefit hugely from these holidays. As has been pointed out, in most of Europe children are added to a family and just fit in with family life, they are not the be centre of everything and because of this they learn a bit of independance and social sklills. Everyone sitting together en masse for meals is great for them, let your 4yr old sit where they want to, doesn't have to be next to you.

Press on with your language skills as a matter of urgency; it must be quite embarassing when your kids speak Italien to relatives and you can't.

The pool...is a LONG way from the house, not everyone has tiny gardens like in the UK, get bracelets and just watch them.

Or just feed the kids early so they're settled, but a smaller portion. Then they'll be more chilled when having dinner later with the family.

My DS's a teen now, but I still give him two dinners when we're in Italy over summer. A smaller bowl of pasta around 8, and then he's OK until dinner, which won't be until 10pm at the earliest in summer.

An early dinner in winter would be 9pm!

I guessed they were Italians. It’s understandable that you find the week stressful, but you chose to marry someone from a different culture so I think you have to suck it up. But I think you’re within your rights to give dinner to your kids earlier. Your kids are tiny; it’ll get easier. Don’t let them miss out on an important part of their heritage. I think you need to learn the language and loosen up.

But I get it. My family is from a super-loud, chatty culture, and we speak in a different language, and when I first brought my English husband round, he looked like he was having a nervous breakdown. He’s from a very quiet family, so I think it was a lot to handle, but he’s used to it now.

This tends to be the case. We were a group of 14 last week for dinner. Restaurants are totally used to catering for larger groups, and our kids (aged between 5-15) are all capable at sitting at table for well over 2 hours. Younger ones colour; older ones play games together on phones.

In summer, our kids now eat at separate tables to us, and sometimes even separate restaurants! They're growing into confident children used to behaving appropriately in restaurants and ordering their food etc.

Most places in Italy are kid-friendly, but not kid-centric.

If you've got a 4 year old you must have known your husband at least 5 years. Why are you not more fluent in the language especially when you see the family as often as you do?

Is your 4 year old honestly not swimming independently yet? That's very unusual but you will have time to catch-up with other children of that age so they can swim by August. The little one needs a life jacket to keep themself safe any time there's access to the pool. It's really not difficult. Hopefully he/she will be given the opportunity to swim unaided since the older sibling obviously hasn't been and is behind.

This week as a extended family sounds amazing and is such a wonderful part of your children's upbringing and culture. It sounds like it's you that has the problem and you're making the children the excuse.

I think it would be unreasonable for you to stop him taking the children. The compromise here is already on the table, they go and you stay. He has a right to take his children to see their extended family.

I think you make a really interesting point about the distinction between ‘child-inclusive’ (more European) and ‘child-centred’ (UK). I’d never thought of it like that before, but it’s true.

I often hear UK people comment about how comfortable and well behaved French/Italian/Spanish etc children are in restaurants and with groups of adults generally - and then they assume that the Europeans must have some magic secret recipe for discipline that UK parents don’t have. But it’s really just because the European kids have had the practice from a very young age.

What I notice when in Europe (particularly the South) is children being included in everything as a matter of course, without overthinking it all. The kids aren’t obliged to stay at the table if they don’t want to, they get up and down, mingle with each other, and they get attention from different adults. The children can be noisy, and it can seem quite chaotic, but so what? And you don’t hear the kids complaining and demanding attention so much as here.

Generalising of course, but just my observations.

Just wanted to add that one of the reasons for late meals in the summer anyway is because it's so hot during the day in Italy. It's nicer to eat when it's later and cooler. And of course food and sharing time around the table is an important family value.
I remember when I first moved to France finding the meals interminable but now I like it and I think it's nice for children to be involved (as long as they can get down from the table to play for a bit).

When we visit my family in the UK we adjust back to quite quick, early meals which seem to be over almost before the last person to be served has sat down to eat.
It's a different way of doing things and neither is wrong.

Your kids are young but things will get easier for them as they get a bit older. And in the meantime if you are able to relax and go with things, they will pick up on that vibe. They will equally pick up on your discomfort if you are struggling with the change of routine.

I'm sure it's not easy for you but it is part and parcel of a mixed culture family. You are lucky in that you live in your home country and culture with your family nearby. These moments in Italy must be very precious for your DH and his family.

Well, er... good for you?

Holidays are an endurance test with some kids.

Yeah, it was pretty cool raising my kids, they would adapt to anything, long haul themes park holidays for 3 weeks, family villas, or caravans at haven. We did it all.

Might not break them. Might break her!

It must be absolutely fab to have children who are adaptive and flexible.

I doubt the OP is coming back to read a bunch of critical posts 😂 but I would note that the Italian birth rate is significantly below that of the UK, so possibly Italian women don't find the work involved, for the mums, of maintaining the idyllic Med lifestyle, all that appealing. Who knows.

I note also that, from what the OP added in subsequent posts, the DH appears to be the only one from this large extended family to have young children. If it's a tribe they're joining, it's an ageing one.

The DH here chose to live in another country and marry someone from there, conveniently with hands-on parents who do childcare and they earn enough together to travel to Italy 3x a year. He made choices too.

Nope, would not be for me! Maybe once every couple years or for a special occasion, but I would not enjoy it.

Dh goes to visit his family and takes dc with him and leaves me home. It’s great. Send him with the kids. He will manage just fine especially with all the extra help.

And yes, children can do late nights and a shift in routine just fine. We’ve been going to Spain since youngest was 8 months. No issues with late dinners out. Now that he’s older he loves a 10pm trip to the playground or walk along the beach and a stop for ice cream. Staying up late will not break them. 😂

I see his point. I feel like you're suggesting his culture is wrong or bad in some way and I'm not even from there.

You sound very rigid and inflexible. The language barrier I do understand but its on you to learn his language and frankly rude of you not to. Apply yourself to this - his language and culture matters and you should respect it.

I think you sound overly anxious and rigid. If you can't adjust your children to the new schedule for one week, just feed them yourself at their usual time, put them to bed as usual with a white noise machine and then get on with enjoying the holiday. It's only one week FFS. Even if they're being noisy, so what. Chatting and music is not a huge issue.

Your kids will get older and all of this will matter less. This sounds like an amazing holiday and a fantastic opportunity for the kids to spend time with their father's family. I absolutely would not be depriving them of it.

Sorry, I had misread!

My ex was Spanish. This is how I lived a decade of my life.
From the comments on this thread, I now recognise why mumsnetters think I'm weird, its because this is now who I am. Meals served like this, shorter versions when we are alone and in winter, a meal with guests easily lasts 3 hours all in, with one thing and another. I Learned Spanish, I got involved in my partners family, I plain and simple joined in with their life. Along the way I must have recognised that UK way of life just isn't for me.
That relationship ended, and ive been in the UK several years now, I'm happily married, and next summer am moving to Spain, near to my Spanish family, and we will be staying there for the rest of our lives. My in-laws adore my new DH, so I guess you will all have a shit ton to say about that aswell as it isn't MN norm and they should hate him right? My ex has stayed with me and DH and we see him a few times a year.
But to me, OP is being particularly difficult to her DH and not accepting his way of life and this bit is only my opinion,that is a situation that can't last

Afraid I'm with your husband OP. I think its really a case of you not liking them and wanting to spend a week with them.
If you go to an all inclusive hotel, the pool is not closed off either, you have to watch your children! In regards to the food, I would lighten up for a week. You married a man from another culture, you have to make sacrifices. You live beside your family, its understandable he wants to spend time with his family. Sorry, I think you're being selfish.

I totally understand your worry about the pool, especially if most people are drinking throughout the day. For that reason alone, I’d want to be there instead of relying on others to keep the children safe.
On one hand, I think it sounds quite lovely to have all generations of the family come together for a week and I can understand why your husband is keen to continue this but I also understand your concerns and I’d find it quite overwhelming to be with all of his family speaking a language that I wasn’t fluent in. It doesn’t sound like much of a holiday for you!
I’d be suggesting you have a separate villa or apartment, so that you have somewhere to ‘escape’ to and somewhere where the children can get some normal sleep. Best of both worlds surely?

It’s funny because I have never stayed in a villa without a fence! I think it might be a bit of a culture thing as my friends wouldn’t stay anywhere without a safe pool either (I know because we went on a group holiday and it was an absolute non negotiable). All
our kids (14 of them) were under 10.

Googling just now it looks like France has some sort of “pool safety device” as a legal requirement- elsewhere it sounds more regional and/ or as though other countries are either in the process of legislating or it’s more of a regional requirement. Also IME reputable holiday lettings agencies tend to insist upon it.

www.beauchamp.com/blog/swimming-pool-laws-rules-france/

In this case I think the whole issue is that the OP is worried that supervision of the pool is more of a group/ informal affair in the daytime (so not the parents), and is done by people who have bed drinking, and us non existent at night when everyone is at dinner. I’d also be worried about this setup with kids of her ages who can’t swim.