To think my friend needs to send her son to a SEN school?

@SimonSaidIt The allocation of Sen school places and even 1:1 is rarely fair. The very dedicated sharp elbowed parent will always triumph. Other dc just bob along and no one advocates for them. It’s always been the same. “Shout” the loudest and you get more but your dc might not need more than a far worse dc with parents who cannot navigate the system.

Some (not many I've met, but definitely some) families simply believe mainstream is the right place for their children with high needs SEN. I usually don't personally agree but never said anything, children have a right to mainstream education.

Having personally and professionally seen this situation play out a lot there's a good chance the LSAs are not doing any curriculum with him whatsoever and are simply entertaining him day by day.

The issue seems to be lack of communication with the school, rather than with the suitability of the environment. Some schools/teachers are better at it than others, and special schools tend to have lower ratios so more capacity to do regular updates. They often have better systems in place for teacher to parent communication too.

My son is in a special provision, but only because his primary school placement utterly broke down and he ended up out of school with EBSA. A mainstream environment with support would have been a better if he were able to cope with it, as he could access a more varied curriculum. Unfortunately the lack of intervention at primary level has meant providing a much more intensive option further down the line. At great cost.

Most areas special needs schools are full and they do it for those will greatness needs.
With so little language they are hardly going to be reading books, often more places at special needs schools are available at senior school age.

Well it sounds like school are taking the mickey, just ditching him with 121s and basically babysitting him. Sadly many schools do this with disabled kids who struggle to access the curriculum - rather than adapting learning targets etc school just opt out.

May be a SEN school would be right fit, maybe a different mainstream school, maybe your mate needs to hassle school more to do the basics properly.

It’s hard though. I got my kid into a special school and it cost be the best part of £100k in legal fees, 2 years and ALL MY SANITY. And i’m educated. I have energy in spades. I’m a tiger mother. Not everyone is or can be that way. So if your mate asks your advice - sure you can advise her she should be getting more from school and SEN Kids need adapted education. They don’t just learn stuff by osmosis from being around mainstream kids or else they’d learn to not have SEN.

If she doesn’t ask, keep schtum. Being a SEN parent is hard hard hard. Sometimes all your reserves are gone by 10am and there’s no time or space to do extra.

The best thing any parent can do in this situation is make sure their child’s needs are being met. This can be really hard to achieve.

One really good way to do that is to get a private Ed Psych report if that’s an option for her. It would be best for him to have an EHCP and a report like this is good evidence for the appropriate setting (SEND or ms) and the approaches he will need to progress as far as he can.

Of course many non verbal or minimally verbal autistic dc have LD, but equally some are actually very bright. I met a teacher once who had a child in her class (small class sizes, independent school) do well at A level with only a few words of expressive language.

What this child needs isn’t clear from the info we have here, but sadly local authorities often need to be pushed to admit children to the right setting.

If only it was so simple. Getting a SEN school place is a huge challenge.

However, he's not your child and his schooling isn't your business.

I imagine your friend has a lot to deal with already and your opinion on what she should be doing almost certainly isn't particularly welcome unless she's specifically asked for your advice.

My son can't stand or walk either. He's bowel incontinent and has a central line because he is dependent on parenteral nutrition some of the time but not during school hours so school just need to be aware of his central line and what to do if it is caught/pulled out accidently or he gets a temp. He's also has medications but is able to swallow tablets and just needs one lot during school hours thankfully.

He has no intellectual disabilities and as far as I could tell, all the nearby SEN schools would be unsuitable because they require a global developmental delay diagnosis and then one is only for autistic children.

It isnt straightforward. DD went to mainstream primary which she loved. It was a small rural school and she had lots of support and a very proactive head who started the EHCP process very early on.

She is now at a special school for secondary and hates it. Her attendance is poor and school refusal is a big issue. Her school caters for children with profound and complex needs and she struggles very much with some of the other children. However, it would have been much worse for her in mainstream as she would have been totally unable to access the curriculum because of her learning disabilities.

In primary I had annual meetings for EHCP review as well as parents evenings. There were also occasional reports from the educational psychologist or the SALT specialist who came in but other than that if your friend doesn't ask for other updates she is unlikely to get them.

Despite being non-verbal, if your friend's son doesn't have learning disabilties then a SEN school may not be the best place for him.

@Kirbert2
so is my DD physically disabled- I didn’t mean if one is physically disabled then one needs to be in a special school- but it might make it a necessity. Being nonverbal or autistic alone (or both) doesn’t mean mainstream school isn’t appropriate.

I’d have been unable to send DD to local mainstream schools (despite wanting to) because she can’t stand or walk so needs a wheelchair, hoisting etc.

In her case that’s why there was no fighting for me getting her into an SEND school- along with her being PEG fed and that she requires suctioning occasionally) and is also doubly incontinent. Those are the sorts of issues that are physical but might add to the nonverbal autistic diagnosis meaning mainstream school wasn’t suitable- rather than as the OP suggests they don’t have “targets” or “homework or reading books”.

OP

I think you, like some people don’t understand or have awareness
a) of what actually happens in a special school
b) don’t understand that being nonverbal can be a condition for life (it isn’t just being slow to start talking)
c) that intellectual disability may or may not be present in nonverbal autism- you don’t say if your “friend’s” DS has an intellectual disability
d) that you can throw as many TAs/3-1,4-1 etc at someone but it isn’t going to make them have a capacity that they don’t have (if her DS indeed cannot speak for lifelong reasons) e) “reading books” for her DS aren’t going to make him able to read…..

Is this actually a DIL scenario or even worse a goady thread in disguise about why some autistic (and other) children cannot speak???

You're projecting how you would behave as a parent in these circumstances onto your friend and her child. You're expressing frustration as you would do things differently. You perceive that other friends have advocated effectively for their children and will achieve a better outcome. I'm not criticising you for this as I did this repeatedly over ten year with a friend and her clearly dyslexic child. She made encouraging noises every time we discussed it but never actually made much progress with implementation. It still infuriates me privately that she let him down. But he was her child and it was her decision. You've done all you can do.

I think the first thing you could encourage your friend to do is improve communication with the school- teams it as school should be keeping her more informed. A communication book filled out daily would be good for this. Then your friend will be more aware of wether her child's needs are being met or not.

Yeah, people love that, to be told by an uneducated friend that they should be doing something extra for their kid to achieve a thing they have a vague idea might be better for them though some process they have no idea about. Why not just shout "Do Better!" at her and see if that helps?

Unless I've missed it, the child in question sounds like he doesn't have an ECHP. If he doesn't, it's perfectly normal to not have targets - targets come from having an ECHP, which the child with a SEN place will have.

Nothing in your OP makes me think anything is unusual except that he isn't given reading books. Everything else seems perfectly normal. For example, you say that his mum doesn't get any information about what they've been working on that day - neither does any other child in a mainstream school! You might get termly newsletters or the teacher may use an online diary, but no teacher has time to send individual reports about what's happened with individual children that day.

Your friend is going to have to navigate the broken system for her child. The only way that she could get him into a sen school was if there was no mainstream school that could meet his needs. If he is being contained and supported OK by LSAs currently, then the school won't be able to claim that they can't keep him.
Lots of children with fairly high support needs can actually manage well in mainstream primary, but secondary might require more support.
SEN schools are probably not what you think either.
My local one has doubled in size and way over capacity, and the LEA still force them to make room. Quite honestly they can no longer provide a therapeutic environment.

This is such a massive issue OP.
I know you mean well , but comments about applying for a sen school and sending him there, show that you don't know anything about the system and how insane it is and the massive crisis in SEN education, or you're not up to date on it.
Her child has the right to be at his current school and if the placement breaks down, only then could she get the ball rolling about alternative placements.

Depends on her sons needs .
Getting a Sen school is a nightmare trust me we managed to get my daughter into one as she wasn't coping with 1;1 or even 2:1 she was to disruptive.
Sounds like your friends little boys is coping with 1:1 he will progress at his own rate and aslong as his parents and 1;1 are happy he's copi5its not really your place to make these judgments as you prob have no idea what the reasoning is for the support he has .

This.

He sounds like my DS. My DS does have targets and I'm pretty sure the child your referring to will as it's highly unlikely he would have 1:1 without and EHCP which is sent directly to parents. Maybe your friend choses not to discuss details with you as she senses that you think you know better than her.
I think if any of my friends or family seen the work my DS produced in his mainstream school they would be shocked. Non-verbal does not mean that they are incapable of progress in a mainstream school. If you interact with my DS in the right way you could see that he is at the age appropriate level for numeracy and not far off in reading. Whilst in mainstream school he has progressed so much and he loves going.

Not your child, not your place to say which school is best for him.

He might be very intelligent, sen schools tend to work best for children with learning disabilities so maybe he wouldnt learn anything there

This.

It’s normally an extremely lengthy and all consuming battle for a SEN school placement. Unless the school don’t think they can meet needs or parents think it’s needed and are fully prepared to fight for it then it’s not something I’d involve myself in if I was you.

It’s not always as simple as mainstream v specialist as there will be a lot of variation. My daughter’s primary has been amazing for children with physical disabilities but pretty shit at dealing with kids with adhd and autism. My friend’s primary has a dedicated Sen unit and seems to provide a much better experience for those children.

I’d also suggest that your friend has already had to fight to get a 1:1 in place.

My son is physically disabled and is thriving in mainstream with a EHCP and 2:1 TA support.

Which is a good job considering he'd have no hope of getting a place in any of the nearby SEN schools.

Thats not necessarily true it csn be very area dependent in My LA we have two SEN primary schools and two SEN high school and various autism Hubs and several PRU,s all of the special schools have doubled in capacity over the past 10/15 years due to the growing needs of children.