Men still have the control, how is this ok?

That’s very true and just to play devil’s advocate in return, it’s only ALMOST 90% of non resident parents who are male. I’m happily married to a man who is great with our joint dc and they are almost adults now so I’ll never be in this situation and it’s not personal but I’m also not blind and deaf to the world around me. Everybody here taking time out of their day to give a mention to the one non resident parent they know who is female and a bit rubbish doesn't change what we all see every day unfortunately.

If they are nice (which ofc is a big IF) extended family support is better for women than the nuclear family alone.

Ok Just to play devil's advocate here id say that its not technically men who have the ability to get away with doing / paying almost nothing, its the non resident parent. Now I know for the most part that IS the man but just pointing out it isn't always. When I was a kid my mum met a new man and up and left and moved to a different country. Never paid maintenance, saw us every now and then in school holidays when it suited her.
And actually my gym closes over Christmas and we dont get a reduction.
I do feel your pain by the way and I understand why youre angry. I would be too in your situation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/separated-families-statistics-april-2014-to-march-2024/separated-families-statistics-april-2014-to-march-2024

Of course women are not saints, nobody is saying they are but they certainly don’t abandon their children at the same rates as men.

What do you mean when you say he's. "Generous to have a child with"?

But it works both ways all this 'woman are saints and have to put up with everything bad a man does' and the usual martyring

I would say both men and women can be good and bad

Yes - women do the most extraordinary things every day. Things that when a man does them he gets enormous praise for.

One thing I've learned in general is that other people's opinions aren't worth much - people never know what is really going on in relationships and families or what people are really like

@Dollyfloss because keeping up appearances of us having a good relationship pays dividends for the children. They love that he comes for tea on their birthday and we sit next to each other at dance shows. My youngest is 6 and is a mummy’s girl. Her being able to FaceTime literally anywhere anytime when she is with her dad makes her feel reassured. I quite frankly don’t trust him not be unreasonable if we don’t get on. In a few years it won’t matter as much. For now, I simmer quietly.

Married my professional ex, discussed being parents beforehand, had planned babies...
Before he decided to "disappear" with the new woman so he can't be located for maintenance. Hasn't sent so much as a birthday card to his own children in years. Hasn't contacted his children in years.
Same man used to amaze his colleagues with his Peter Andre love my kids shtick.
Whatever happened, my children were born as the result of two people deciding, but one gets to walk away from his responsibilities.
Unfortunately in all the cases of marriage breakup that I know, I only know two dads who truly put their children first. The rest avoid maintenance and access to greater and lesser degrees. Maybe not all men, but nearly all the men.

I should have made it clear, a long term couple who have made joint plans to have a child is not what i was speaking of

Yes their relationship can break down

People who blindly have a child because well someone is throwing me some attention and I really want a baby so will stick my head in the sand and ignore all the red flag, then go on to have more ignoring more red flags is

I mean, I don't recognise any of the things you mention in your first para. Most of my friends' children are loved and wanted.

And of course people have children to please themselves. You wouldn't get people who didn't want them having them, anyway, for some altruistic purpose, would you? I think most reasonable people agree that children should be wanted. But if you're saying that children should be wanted but in such a way that isn't for the parents to satisfy their desire to have children, but only in an altruistic way, yet still wanted just as much...sorry, it doesn't really make sense. People who really want children tend to have them. And I can't see what's wrong with that. It's how the human race has survived.

But a child is not an accessory or a possession people can convince themselves they care and love their children but how many want the cute baby to treat like a doll then can't wait till their children get a job so they can pay them money and wait for them to move out of home or when they split how much problems are caused because parents are too busy fighting each other for anyone to care about the children

so what is this deep desire for? the children or themselves?

It's a rubbish option if you have a deep desire to have kids though, which the majority of women do.

So there is a problem in the relationship and if there are children this will have an effect on the children but then men are called out if they leave? So men have to stay, how is this healthy for the children?

then if they have permission to leave they cant have 50/50 as women dont see that as suits them and of course it means they wont get money off them, so men have to see the children whichever way the mother decides?

But how much time an effort did either parent put towards having children in the first place, but of course it is always the children who suffer and then parents go on to have more children with other partners so satisfy their own needs

women (and men) have choices children dont, percentage wise how much decisions are made that is best for the women not the children? we hear constantly I need to have a child my life is over if I dont successfully TTC but once the children are born the need is fulfilled and the children seem to be there to fix whatever need parents decide

I just assume that the vast majority of men don't want kids. I mean leaving you during pregnancy doesn't scream family man. Did he say he wanted children? Not having kids is always an option...

I think there’s a general expectation for women to be all caring and take responsibility. Men leave and it’s ok, women leave their kids and they’re awful.
These opinions are even ingrained in TV, I was watching a fictional programme with a neglected child, someone visited and both parents were addicts and not caring for the child. The person visiting said “what kind of mother are you who doesn’t bath her own son”. Yet nothing was said to the Dad.

On the flip side men do also get a rough deal. When I was a teacher I had a girl in my class who had autism. It was just her and Dad as mother left them. He told me people judged him for not working and called him a benefit scrounger. Clearly he couldn’t work, he was a single parent for a high needs child and I wondered if a woman in the same situation would get the same judgment.

It's a difficult one really. I also see lots of men complaining that we get priority in family court and custody cases etc. I think things need to change on both sides.

The CMS was designed by an all male Tory government to remove pressure on the state onto parents - sorry the mother. Only a co ordinated campaign will change policy and this labour government is about the only chance we will have if reform come in next.

Absolutely. I’ve got 2 close friends who are single parents and I can’t believe that we as a society let men get away with not supporting their kids!

With one of my friends I’ve provided more clothes for her son than his own father - how is he not embarrassed by that? I also give her kids pocket money for their occasional holidays - their deadbeat father can’t even manage that. And yet when my friend is honest with CMS about how many overnights he does (not many) the deadbeat moans that she’s only bothers about money.

If I was PM this would be my top priority. If we made fathers pay for their kids then we’d lift so many kids out of poverty.

Yes, absolutely.

There should be zero tolerance here of men just leaving women to sort out the childcare, whether doing it or paying for it.

I am shocked at some of these comments. "Women should stop...with crap men".
You only need to read the lots of posts of MN to know that we haven't copulated with shit men, in my case a childhood sweetheart, man who I had known since the age of 4, knew his family, been in the forces, good career, married 5 years before having children (to feel confident we were secure etc, etc. He had an affair whilst I was pregnant. Then moved job every year basically so CS couldn't catch up with him. Took years to get any contribution financially. He is still completely crap parent to grown kids, he went on to have others.
We don't have crystal balls, but it needs to be made more difficult for men to walk away without consequences and also women should not listen when a bloke runs down previous partners and realise, they will repeat and repeat ( I have had conversations with his subsequent partners)

So don't put yourself at the mercy of sub-par, financially insolvent losers without even a marriage certificate to protect you. I cannot fathom why women put their bodies, financial security and careers at risk, all for the sake of these unworthy losers. Many of them even give their babies the father's surname. These women are not putting their babies at the forefront of their decision to continue their pregnancies if they know that the father-to-be is likely to be deadbeat and not step up.

Motherhood is revered and glorified until the baby is actually here, after that, nobody cares. These men see the women as conquered and an inconvenience. Far better to be childfree and not hand the control over to them.

Yes women it seems cant think, how many times on here alone are there examples of women letting men do all their thinking for them so they then sit back and complain about it afterwards?

Shhhh don't speak so much truth all at once😅

OP is lumping all men with a someone who dragged her along for 4 years, had a kid with him, and is shocked that her life has turned out the way it has.

But its the fault of the entire opposite gender!