To think infant circumcision is wrong but also that a total ban on it will not work and is not the most effective way to tackle it?

Doesn't fit with shutting the door. You know what the Talmud says about saving one life being equivalent to saving the whole world. Ten thousand not one. I used to work with a man who was at the liberation of Belsen. How many British men died to defeat the Nazis and save Jewish lives?

I think some apologies are due to the men and women who secured the defeat of the Nazis. Easy to criticise now, my husband was a babe in arms when his father died as a result of injuries in France. Many families suffered, deaths, injuries, mental trauma and it is just thrown back.

Only some Haredi do that now: that was a premodern rite done due to mistaken understanding of germ theory. Most Jewish groups stopped doing it in the 20th century when infection was better understood.

We need to ensure no Haredi do it now.

Are you trying to imply it's done for sexually abusive reasons? There is no evidence that's the motive - it's just extremely badly-advised desire to follow scripture very literally by the Haredi (not all) who still do it.

Only some Haredi do that now: that was a premodern rite done due to mistaken understanding of germ theory. Most Jewish groups stopped doing it in the 20th century when infection was better understood.

We need to ensure no Haredi do it now.

Are you trying to imply it's done for sexually abusive reasons? There is no evidence that's the motive - it's just extremely badly-advised desire to follow scripture very literally by the Haredi (not all) who still do it.

Only some Haredi do that now: that was a premodern rite done due to mistaken understanding of germ theory. Most Jewish groups stopped doing it in the 20th century when infection was better understood.

We need to ensure no Haredi do it now.

Are you trying to imply it's done for sexually abusive reasons? There is no evidence that's the motive - it's just extremely badly-advised desire to follow scripture very literally by the Haredi (not all) who still do it.

@TheignT Saba Saba is right though- the countries could have done much more plus Jewish families had to pay to send their children via kindertransport and it was organised initially by a Jewish person I think ( Nicholas Winter?) - it wasn’t a benevolent gesture towards children fleeing persecution by a thoughtful government in the way it could have been.

Thank you for this post. These are really important points and I will address them later tonight.

For now, I stress that I do not want to minimise the suffering many OTD have experienced due to Chasidic groups. NY saying they are not cults, I didn't want to deny that they are extremely harmful often.

I think a comparison could be Catholic sects : a family friend got enmeshed in Opus Dei some time ago and reading up on it, it doesn't meet the definition of a cult stated above. But is extremely controlling and definitely cult-adjacent.

I think high-control religious group is more what the Haredi (Chasidic but also the non Hasidic are). Somewhat like the Amish : they share a lot of features, at least, partially, with cults, and can inflict a lot of distress. But they don't meet the legal threshold of cult. This shouldn't diminish the harm they cause : I was saying they weren't a cult to explain why that poster's call to use police to break the communities up wouldn't work.

Didn't the kindertrandport bring Jewish children to Britain?

It did indeed.

It did indeed.

Didn't the kindertrandport bring Jewish children to Britain?

The irony is hard to miss. Within living memory, countries across Europe (like UK and Ireland) shut their doors to Jewish children fleeing the Nazis or happily gave them up to them to be murdered (most of the others). Now Europe suddenly wants to lecture Jews about the wellbeing of their own children, expressing outrage over so-called “mutilation.” Given Europe’s long history of exclusion, persecution and indifference toward Jews when it actually mattered, it’s hardly surprising that Jewish communities are deeply skeptical of this sudden concern. When anxiety about the wellbeing Jewish children only surfaces as a way to attack Jewish life and persecute jews and accuse them of child abuse (WTF?!) , it doesn’t come across as care — it comes across as hypocrisy.

The irony is hard to miss. Within living memory, countries across Europe (like UK and Ireland) shut their doors to Jewish children fleeing the Nazis or happily gave them up to them to be murdered (most of the others). Now Europe suddenly wants to lecture Jews about the wellbeing of their own children, expressing outrage over so-called “mutilation.” Given Europe’s long history of exclusion, persecution and indifference toward Jews when it actually mattered, it’s hardly surprising that Jewish communities are deeply skeptical of this sudden concern. When anxiety about the wellbeing Jewish children only surfaces as a way to attack Jewish life and persecute jews and accuse them of child abuse (WTF?!) , it doesn’t come across as care — it comes across as hypocrisy.

YOU dont think it needs to be done. They obviously feel different, the apparent victims you have decided need saving.

And, yes, it targets certain groups and cultures. And those on their high horses about it generally are not from those groups.

Concern about the mutilation of babies targets no one group or culture. It is fundamentally wrong whoever is doing it.

This is not a "sudden desire" to lecture Jews. This is a basic discussion about right and wrong. It has always been wrong.

Why do some people think men are glad it was done when they are young? What is the sense in that when it simply need not have been done at all?