To think infant circumcision is wrong but also that a total ban on it will not work and is not the most effective way to tackle it?

How do you explain the fact that parents of boys all over the UK and most of Europe manage to wash their boys genitals and keep them clean with no problems?

Are you one of those Americans that chop your dogs ears off because of infections as well?

You think physical punishment is acceptable (even though it’s not what you’d do yourself)?

You keep saying medical complications……..what are those????

medical fact - the risk is associated with the anaesthetic - why do you ignore this? There are no other medical facts

The fact remains it’s unnecessary surgery for a baby

@sabababa i understand your logic here - you cannot take an isolated act out of context and judge it by standards from a different culture. The problem I see is that, for example, if some one is raised in the UK they live largely by the standards of that society and accept the responsibilities and rights inherent in that society. There will always be a conflict if they have a different faith as that is something they will need to honour and it doesn’t necessarily fit in to the society’s practices. We need to find a satisfactory way to remedy this conflict in line with both the faith and the society - for those individuals who will grow up and live there. It’s addressing this conflict that we seem to get stuck on - it cannot continue being one way or another we need some compromise. The same I think is true for funerals where certain faiths need to have their funeral immediately and this has caused issues with coroners in London who are trying to manage the burials - not addressing the issue sand it’s complexity as OP points out isnt the solution but something like circumcision is not compatible with modern medical advice ( do no harm) the conflict won’t go away and the discourse needs to be shifted to a mindset of finding a solution - this needs rabbis, etc to get involved and accept that interpretation ( a key part of most faiths) is changeable and adaptive when it protects and grows the faith

Yes we would arrest and prosecute for taking a child abroad to be mutilated.
Its an arrestable offence for girls and should be for boys

Otherwise, why isn't there a queue of adult northern European men queuing round the block to be circumcised?

Because it gets longer in hot weather ?

Its not the personal of choice of the owner of the genitals being mutilated, its the parents imposing that choice.

If infant circumcision was banned, and elective circumcision could only be performed from say, the age of 14 upwards, I'd expect the rate of elective circumcision to plummet. Otherwise, why isn't there a queue of adult northern European men queuing round the block to be circumcised?

Again, you don't know better than the parents of nearly half the worlds better.
The hubris is breath taking.
And while I personally wouldn't hit my children, I have experienced how other cultures raise their children not to say that the way i raise my children is better even if some parents do use physical punishment.

YANBU however much I dislike it.

But it's the mumsnetters standard answer to everything- have teacher ban the naughty thing so it goes away.

That prohibition is often ineffective; courts police and prisons are at breaking point dealing with the already illegal stuff; that the ineffective bans reduce the legitimacy of the police and the law in the eyes of parts of the population and lead to them turning elsewhere for protection; that organised crime grows on and in these shades of grey- none of it matters.

I'll just get responses saying 'if I can't ban everything I want to, why not legalise murder then', as if it's comparable.

Medical fact is both the small benefits you listed and what I said about medical complications being greater as an adult.
I never said its the main reason to do it.
But given the small benefits and cultural importance and relative ease as a baby, personal choice.

It's recommended strongly in the Hadith though. - and?

It does not matter who or what recommends it, it is fundamentally wrong to mutilate a baby.

Of course it will be a challenge to enforce a legal ban on non-medically needed circumcisions; but enforcing many laws is challenging - that does not mean we do not have them in place. Difficulties in enforcing the law are no reason for that law not to be in the statute book.

Even if a total ban didn’t eradicate the loathsome practice, that doesn’t argue against a government showing some backbone and doing the right thing.

There was a most enlightening comments section t’other day in the Daily Torygraph on the subject of banning ritual halal slaughter.
(Cruelty thereof, unwarranted by any modern concerns, exactly the same as ritual circumcision of infants.)
A prominent rabbi (poss. Chief?) had an opinion piece in the edition in which he argued that such a ban would be unfair to observant Jews.

Putting aside his automatic assumption that the proposal was generated only by opposition to the practices of British Muslims, he must have been gobsmacked at the level of support for a total ban no matter whose ancient beliefs it may offend.
Among the many surprisingly reasonable comments were some from Jewish readers who pointed out that the requirement for halal butchering had long been overtaken by modern standards in beef production, whatever about eschewing pork for other reasons.
He explained (as do others here in pp) that Judaism may adapt itself to great necessity such as the law, as can Islam, and he cited other ways too in which observance is not outraged.
(Mere convenience doesn’t meet the case, of course)

This is not true. We live in the highly privileged western world with 21st century science. Not eating pork (no refrigerators) and removing the foreskin (no hot water) were sensible practices at the time the Holy Books were written. They are unnecessary now.

The small benefits of cleaning being a little easier without a foreskin, are easily addressed by the ready availability of warm showers/baths, soap and basic hygiene education. We don't remove all our teeth, and wear false ones, just to avoid the need for twice daily brushing and remove the risk of tooth decay. That would be silly.

The small reduction in risk of contracting Aids, suggested by some African studies, is much better achieved with the use of condoms and/or PEP/PrEP if a man is in a high-risk category. The evidence for benefits regarding other STIs is very weak and unconvincing.

Chopping off living bits of a healthy baby's body IS child abuse. It SHOULD be banned.