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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think infant circumcision is wrong but also that a total ban on it will not work and is not the most effective way to tackle it?

732 replies

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 00:49

On the recent threads after the tragic death of the baby boy who died from circumcision performed by a non medical professional, there have been a lot of calls for a total ban on here.
Now, I think infant circumcision is very wrong. But in practice I do not think a ban will work.
Most cultural circumcisions are performed by medically trained people. Backstreet ones need to be cracked down on with the full force of the law, but they are not typical.
Second, circumcision is key in Islam. However, while most agree it’s either compulsory or strongly recommended, age requirements are not as stringent in mandating someone has to be a minor. I think there is some hope sensitive campaigning within the community could maybe make more families consider leaving it until their son is at least maybe an older adolescent with more ability to choose.
Judaism – circumcision is central to Orthodox, Ultra Orthodox Haredi ofc, and more liberal Masorti and Reform. It is extremely unlikely that any law or external pressure would stop these practices, because brit milah is a covenantal obligation tied to Jewish identity. Attempting a blanket ban would likely trigger defensiveness, fear, maybe underground circumcisions and probably emigration of at least some to Israel or elsewhere, rather than protect children.
Focusing on sterile procedures, trained practitioners, and medical supervision would be more likely to significantly reduce risk. Jews have experienced persecution for circumcision in the past (e.g., Hellenistic bans and European restrictions), so any attempt to criminalise it today can feel existential. This is only heightened by the terrible upsurge in anti Semitism recently.

I agree with sentiments behind calling for a ban - I just thing measures short of a ban are more likely to work.

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Carla786 · 04/01/2026 17:03

Fleurdeville · 04/01/2026 17:00

@sabababa so it’s quite black or white for them, there is no grey area with the orthodox? In which case, a ban would seem like persecution given their history in Europe.

I honestly don’t know what the solution is other than time. I cannot reconcile it with what is right for a newborn. I read recently that some scientists believe now that the appendix may offer protection for the micro biome- it’s not as redundant as once thought. The foreskin must have a functional purpose else it would have ( evolutionary speaking) disappeared.

Edited

I agree, sadly..

Re evolution, I agree with that. Unluckily the religious reasoning isn't that foreskin ks useless - it's that it sets the boys apart as chosen by G-d to follow and shows the covenant.

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Usernamenotfound1 · 04/01/2026 17:03

blubberyboo · 04/01/2026 16:56

Yes
If a parent took a knife to any other part of a childs body we would remove them from their care.
Why does religion get a pass?

I mean the UK and most of the civilised world has outlawed the tradition of tail docking, ear cropping and declawing of animals. So why doing it to baby boys, on a particularly sensitive part of their anatomy is permissible still strikes me as contrary.

are baby boys somehow less worth protecting against such acts?

the USA stands pretty much alone in it still being common practice. I have seen many Americans arguing for lopping off bits of animals much in the same way as boy babies- hygiene, it’s tradition, we need them to look a certain way, they are fine with it etc…

sabababa · 04/01/2026 17:03

SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 16:52

I totally understand the importance in as much as someone studying anything from the position of outside can.

But either not mutilating babies is an absolute or it is contingent.

Speaking for myself, and the society I wish to live in, it's an absolute.

Well, I would prefer that first we insist all babies are vaccinated. You know, to.stop them dying and killing other kids.
That would be my absolute.
Yet parents are allowed to crack on and spread measles.
So if we're all about protecting kids, how about we focus on what's going to.kill and disable them and others first.
Because if we allow this shit to happen,.male circumcision is nothing.
We're either protecting babies or we aren't.

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 17:01

SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 16:24

Well changing the law to outlaw it would be the strongest possible support from society.

for Haredi women it would likely have the opposite effect.

If circumcision were criminalised, women who object wouldn’t suddenly gain freedom. They’d be under pressure to keep everything secret, avoid professionals, avoid services, and avoid outsiders. That makes it harder, not easier, for women to say no or ask for help.

Real support looks like confidential healthcare access, safeguarding professionals they trust, culturally competent midwives and social workers, and safe routes for women to push back without risking their family being criminalised or their children taken into care

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TakeTheCuntingQuichePatricia · 04/01/2026 17:01

I know 2 men who were circumcised as adults. Both for medical reasons. Both had what is considered a straightforward recovery with no "issues" Both said the recovery process was long painful. Neither can understand why anyone would willingly do that, especially to a baby. Although we have no way to know if babies find the recovery as long and painful as men.

Fleurdeville · 04/01/2026 17:00

@sabababa so it’s quite black or white for them, there is no grey area with the orthodox? In which case, a ban would seem like persecution given their history in Europe.

I honestly don’t know what the solution is other than time. I cannot reconcile it with what is right for a newborn. I read recently that some scientists believe now that the appendix may offer protection for the micro biome- it’s not as redundant as once thought. The foreskin must have a functional purpose else it would have ( evolutionary speaking) disappeared.

sabababa · 04/01/2026 16:58

Mischance · 04/01/2026 16:46

I do care about the history of their beliefs which are based on ancient cultures that are pre- enlightenment. I care that these are holding back the progress of civilised rules that protect babies.
I care that people should have a right to their religious beliefs but not at the expense of protecting children.

Has there been a protest by Jewish and Muslim adults who were circumcised as children? Are they demanding your protection?

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 16:57

sabababa · 04/01/2026 16:54

Thank you for the thoughtful question.
Liberal Judaism recommends circumcision but doesnt see it
.as an obligation if there are concerns.
But orthodox and haredi communities- absolutely not. This is one of the basic tenents of being a jew. People dont understand just how fundamental it is - it's not something shallow like looking like your dad.

Exactly.

Judaism is an interpretive tradition, but not all commandments are equally flexible. Circumcision is explicitly described as an eternal, physical covenant in the Torah, which places it among the least open to reinterpretation in Orthodox and Haredi Judaism. While practices around it have adapted — medical standards, safety, rejecting oral suction — the core requirement isn’t something rabbis can simply redefine as symbolic.

Masorti/Conservative Judaism is less strict but they and also most Reform still see it as essential part of covenant. Reconstructionists are more liberal too but they often still do it.

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PennyLaneisinmyheartandmysoul · 04/01/2026 16:56

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 16:50

I'm not saying saying laws shouldn’t exist because some people break them. The point is that badly designed laws can actively make children less safe, and child protection law is supposed to be about outcomes, not moral catharsis.

Criminal law works best when behaviour is visible, reportable, and enforceable. Infant circumcision happens in private family and religious settings. Banning it would inevitably mean driving the practice underground, encouraging overseas procedures, and disengaging families from health services.

the people who pay the price for that stance aren’t the adults — it’s the children, if parents are jailed, families are destabilised, or procedures are done secretly and unsafely. That’s why safeguarding law normally prioritises harm reduction and engagement, not maximum punishment.

Law isn’t just about drawing a moral line; it’s about whether that line actually protects the vulnerable. If a ban predictably increases risk to children and overwhelms courts and social services, it isn’t a serious child-protection proposal — it’s a symbolic one.

Imagine if the parents didn’t get jailed because they didn’t mutilate their baby?

blubberyboo · 04/01/2026 16:56

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 16:33

The care system is already very full : do you really think it's ethical to take kids away because of circumcision?

Yes
If a parent took a knife to any other part of a childs body we would remove them from their care.
Why does religion get a pass?

sabababa · 04/01/2026 16:54

Fleurdeville · 04/01/2026 16:45

@Carla786 @sabababa

I think you both sound as though you have some understand of Judaism and how it’s is practiced which I don’t really.

would it be possible over time for rabbis to extend their interpretation of the covenant so that the dial shifted slightly on this? So that circumcision could be interpreted as necessary in the past but through G-D’s grace ( science) we can now see the covenant differently?

I don’t have the correct language to explain this properly but in understood that the Talmud was the active, engaged interpretation of scripture and that it is interpretative.

Edited

Thank you for the thoughtful question.
Liberal Judaism recommends circumcision but doesnt see it
.as an obligation if there are concerns.
But orthodox and haredi communities- absolutely not. This is one of the basic tenents of being a jew. People dont understand just how fundamental it is - it's not something shallow like looking like your dad.

SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 16:54

HostaCentral · 04/01/2026 16:52

Let's look at it with modern eyes

If a new religion occured, an offshoot of Christianity for example, which required the removal of a bodily part of newborn babies, would we (the world) just kick back and say, fine by us..... Crack on. I think not.

Rastafarians know all about that.

SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 16:52

FunnyOrca · 04/01/2026 16:42

Obviously for the parents. 🙄

I’ve known young mothers do it because “that’s what we do” without being fully informed about what they are doing.

Ah, sorry, I was thinking of the babies

Consider my head wobbled.

HostaCentral · 04/01/2026 16:52

Let's look at it with modern eyes

If a new religion occured, an offshoot of Christianity for example, which required the removal of a bodily part of newborn babies, would we (the world) just kick back and say, fine by us..... Crack on. I think not.

SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 16:52

sabababa · 04/01/2026 16:39

Why dont you read a bit about why circumcision is so important to Jews and then perhaps you'll understand better?

Im not saying anything. Im not "for" circumcision. I just understand the importance it has for one community. Its not a joke. Its not something to be sneered at and mocked. And for.those who are religious , the meaning is even deeper.

I totally understand the importance in as much as someone studying anything from the position of outside can.

But either not mutilating babies is an absolute or it is contingent.

Speaking for myself, and the society I wish to live in, it's an absolute.

NotAnotherPylon · 04/01/2026 16:51

sabababa · 04/01/2026 16:49

Wow, you are indeed a superior parent.
Of course your way is the right way and everyone else is wrong 😂
All those terrible and abusive Jewish, Muslim and African parents with their mutilated boys...

Thanks🤩

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 16:50

Mischance · 04/01/2026 16:25

That assumes law automatically produces compliance.

No it doesn't. All laws have people who do not comply. That is what the criminal justice system is for.

I care not one jot that someone might see a law against mutilating babies as persecution. Better that they should feel offended than a baby who cannot defend himself is mutilated.

If circumcision on non medical grounds is outlawed then those doing it will have to face the courts and punishment.

Laws are broken and circumvented all the time of course, but that does not mean they should not exist. They are the backbone of a civilized society.

I'm not saying saying laws shouldn’t exist because some people break them. The point is that badly designed laws can actively make children less safe, and child protection law is supposed to be about outcomes, not moral catharsis.

Criminal law works best when behaviour is visible, reportable, and enforceable. Infant circumcision happens in private family and religious settings. Banning it would inevitably mean driving the practice underground, encouraging overseas procedures, and disengaging families from health services.

the people who pay the price for that stance aren’t the adults — it’s the children, if parents are jailed, families are destabilised, or procedures are done secretly and unsafely. That’s why safeguarding law normally prioritises harm reduction and engagement, not maximum punishment.

Law isn’t just about drawing a moral line; it’s about whether that line actually protects the vulnerable. If a ban predictably increases risk to children and overwhelms courts and social services, it isn’t a serious child-protection proposal — it’s a symbolic one.

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sabababa · 04/01/2026 16:49

NotAnotherPylon · 04/01/2026 16:42

Lose as much breath as you want. What you call hubris, I’d call empathy and a desire to protect the vulnerable who don’t have the voice to say no to having their genitals mutilated.

As for your defence of parents who use physical punishment, that’s up to you. I still think it’s abusive and damaging. I’m completely comfortable with thinking I’m right and that those parents are wrong.

Wow, you are indeed a superior parent.
Of course your way is the right way and everyone else is wrong 😂
All those terrible and abusive Jewish, Muslim and African parents with their mutilated boys...

Mischance · 04/01/2026 16:46

sabababa · 04/01/2026 16:36

The absolute callousness to 'care not one jot' that it might be seen as persecution under the guise of caring so much about babies. I mean, you might not support circumcision but you might also want to care and understand the deep reasons this is held and the distress not circumcising would cause. To not care one jot makes me think this is not about supposedly protecting the babies of these communities when you care so little about their history and beliefs .

I do care about the history of their beliefs which are based on ancient cultures that are pre- enlightenment. I care that these are holding back the progress of civilised rules that protect babies.
I care that people should have a right to their religious beliefs but not at the expense of protecting children.

Fleurdeville · 04/01/2026 16:45

@Carla786 @sabababa

I think you both sound as though you have some understand of Judaism and how it’s is practiced which I don’t really.

would it be possible over time for rabbis to extend their interpretation of the covenant so that the dial shifted slightly on this? So that circumcision could be interpreted as necessary in the past but through G-D’s grace ( science) we can now see the covenant differently?

I don’t have the correct language to explain this properly but in understood that the Talmud was the active, engaged interpretation of scripture and that it is interpretative.

sabababa · 04/01/2026 16:45

Blushingm · 04/01/2026 16:40

England is not the entire UK. In Wales and Scotland it’s totally illegal

And the law says it becomes illegal in England & NI if it goes ‘beyond reasonable punishment’ so is actually a grey area. Parents don’t decide if it goes beyond punishment - the law does

50 years ago the cane was allowed in schools - now it’s not. The law changed because it was agreed it was cruel and not necessary and wasn’t in the child’s best interest

Edited

So the law of the country you happen to be in 😂
Im not in england but the country im in allows parents to physically punish children so I can say 'the law allows it' (and infant male circumcision too)

FunnyOrca · 04/01/2026 16:42

SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 16:39

Counselling for who ? The baby ? That's a very niche field. Not many people speak baby.

Obviously for the parents. 🙄

I’ve known young mothers do it because “that’s what we do” without being fully informed about what they are doing.

NotAnotherPylon · 04/01/2026 16:42

sabababa · 04/01/2026 14:42

Again, you don't know better than the parents of nearly half the worlds better.
The hubris is breath taking.
And while I personally wouldn't hit my children, I have experienced how other cultures raise their children not to say that the way i raise my children is better even if some parents do use physical punishment.

Lose as much breath as you want. What you call hubris, I’d call empathy and a desire to protect the vulnerable who don’t have the voice to say no to having their genitals mutilated.

As for your defence of parents who use physical punishment, that’s up to you. I still think it’s abusive and damaging. I’m completely comfortable with thinking I’m right and that those parents are wrong.

sabababa · 04/01/2026 16:41

SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 16:38

Was I joking ? Being aware of the humour in a situation does not equate with agreeing with it.

No its disgusting and shows the disdain in which you hold the beliefs of Jews and Muslims.

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 16:41

FunnyOrca · 04/01/2026 16:38

As someone from a culture that circumcises babies, banning it will not end it. I completely disagree with the practice but I know people will continue to do it and older generations will put pressure on parents to do it to their babies.

I would like to see it be performed in medical (STERILE!!!!) settings and have to come with a counselling session beforehand.

I agree.

Can I ask if you are Jewish or Muslim? I get if prefer not to say.

Do you think younger gen would want to do it if not pressured?

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