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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think infant circumcision is wrong but also that a total ban on it will not work and is not the most effective way to tackle it?

732 replies

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 00:49

On the recent threads after the tragic death of the baby boy who died from circumcision performed by a non medical professional, there have been a lot of calls for a total ban on here.
Now, I think infant circumcision is very wrong. But in practice I do not think a ban will work.
Most cultural circumcisions are performed by medically trained people. Backstreet ones need to be cracked down on with the full force of the law, but they are not typical.
Second, circumcision is key in Islam. However, while most agree it’s either compulsory or strongly recommended, age requirements are not as stringent in mandating someone has to be a minor. I think there is some hope sensitive campaigning within the community could maybe make more families consider leaving it until their son is at least maybe an older adolescent with more ability to choose.
Judaism – circumcision is central to Orthodox, Ultra Orthodox Haredi ofc, and more liberal Masorti and Reform. It is extremely unlikely that any law or external pressure would stop these practices, because brit milah is a covenantal obligation tied to Jewish identity. Attempting a blanket ban would likely trigger defensiveness, fear, maybe underground circumcisions and probably emigration of at least some to Israel or elsewhere, rather than protect children.
Focusing on sterile procedures, trained practitioners, and medical supervision would be more likely to significantly reduce risk. Jews have experienced persecution for circumcision in the past (e.g., Hellenistic bans and European restrictions), so any attempt to criminalise it today can feel existential. This is only heightened by the terrible upsurge in anti Semitism recently.

I agree with sentiments behind calling for a ban - I just thing measures short of a ban are more likely to work.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Carla786 · 04/01/2026 20:07

KitWyn · 04/01/2026 13:31

The UK has successfully banned lots of vile and/or unfair practices that some British people were very, very attached to. The zealots' enthusiasm was often based, at least partly, on a Holy Book of choice.

Child Marriage, FGM, Unequal Pay/Recruitment/Employment for Women, Polygamy and Slavery are just a few behaviours we've managed to outlaw. Not necessarily perfectly, but very few would now dare suggest undoing these bans in the UK.

As regards Orthodox Jews, they're sufficiently quiet and few in number, to largely keep under the British public radar. We don't read regular news reports on their involvement in child rape & torture gangs, or plans to commit acts of violence/terrorism. So they don't receive the same attention as UK Muslims, despite their beliefs also being typically misogynistic, homophobic and controlling.

But. One law for all, should be a non-negotiable principle. Whatever your religion, or lack of religion.

We should ban male circumcision for boys on religious grounds. Children/babies can't consent to this. And their parents shouldn't be able to consent on their child's behalf for this medically-unnecessary surgery. It is child abuse.

We should also remove the exemption allowing non-stun slaughter for kosher (and halal) abattoirs. Playing pre-recorded prayers doesn't reduce the pain and fear when animals are killed.

These are cruel, unnecessary and divisive religious practices. They need to be banned.

Edited

This is not comparable-

Child Marriage, FGM, Unequal Pay/Recruitment/Employment for Women, Polygamy and Slavery are just a few behaviours we've managed to outlaw.'

None of these are a major commandent of any world religion (thank goodness!) the way circumcision unfortunately is in Judaism and to a somewhat lesser extent Islam.

FGM, Unequal Pay/Recruitment/Employment for Women, - those 2 are not mandated by any world religion at all. FGM isn't mentioned in any major Holy Book. That gave FGM campaigners a major religious tool which circumcision campaigners don't have: that it was definitely not mandated by the religion of Christianity or Islam, or even mentioned.

This makes trying to ban infant circumcision a much harder task.

OP posts:
SpringIsComingSoonFolks · 04/01/2026 20:06

KissMyArt · 04/01/2026 00:54

Nope.

Slicing bits off a newborn baby for anything other than medical reasons really should be banned.

This.

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 19:51

FollowSpot · 04/01/2026 13:30

You don't know what is best for your baby as a future man. Or that all men are perfectly happy. I had a long term Dp who was less than happy and could not understand why his parents had done it.

Some (possibly many) men do get dry skin and chafing on the glans because there is no foreskin to protect it. Cyclists who are circumcised can buy specialist protective guards. These guards are sold because there is a demand....

There is evidence about the effects of circumcision e.g Male circumcision decreases penile sensitivity as measured in a large cohort - PubMed

Fine: your own position / belief seems to be that circumcision is so important per se for whatever your own reasons / religion that it is actually more important than any potential adverse effects. So just own that. Admit it and say so.

The Bronselaer 2013 study reports that 310 circumcised men overall self-reported less glans pleasure, lower orgasm intensity, and more unusual sensations. But it’s an online, self-selected survey (often dodgy esp for sexuality) and can’t prove causation. Other studies and reviews, including meta-analyses, show no clear difference in overall sexual function or satisfaction, and major medical organizations do not interpret this study as evidence that circumcision significantly reduces sexual pleasure

I think infant circumcision is wrong in principle. I'm not as convinced by sexual arguments though- and even if it improved sex, it would still be non consensual.

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IcedPurple · 04/01/2026 19:12

Sterlingsilver · 04/01/2026 09:41

And hardly any of those 40% consented to it, because they were tiny little defenceless babies. That's ok with you is it?

And they may be 'happy with their lot' because they have nothing to compare it to. You can't miss what was ripped off you as a newborn baby.

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 19:11

blubberyboo · 04/01/2026 17:48

If the first born is a boy then the parents wont be together to create the second born.

Theyll be in separate sex jails

so the family might be smaller than you imagine.

Same way other parents who abuse their children arent placed together in prison

Safeguarding does not operate on the principle that parents should be separated, families broken up, or future children prevented as a deterrent.

Even in cases of serious abuse: Prison is a last resort, children are removed only if there is ongoing risk & courts aim to preserve family life wherever possible

What you’re proposing goes beyond standard UK child protection.

OP posts:
Carla786 · 04/01/2026 18:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Stop misleading posters. I didn't say it is acceptable. I said that it was traditionally performed to cleanse the wound using premodern beliefs, and that's it wrong to say the people doing it for all those years were doing it to sexually abuse.

It was standard until most stopped in the 20th century, and a good thing they did. Unluckily some Haredi still do it...

Link for anyone wanting to know what the basis for the sexual abuse claims by pp actually is : (TW for circumcision description)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah#

OP posts:
PennyLaneisinmyheartandmysoul · 04/01/2026 18:43

This reply has been deleted

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Carla786 · 04/01/2026 18:34

Blushingm · 04/01/2026 18:23

Any conviction of cruelty etc would preclude someone from many types of job - anything that needs a DBS check so nursing, teaching, child care, community carer.

it would be both parents prosecuted - both would have a criminal record

In practice, DBS consequences would hit integrated Orthodox, Masorti and Reform families far more than Haredi ones.

Most Haredi men & many women don’t work in nursing, teaching, childcare or state roles at all, (usually are more likely to be in Community businesses, Retail, wholesale, import/export, IT roles within the community, Bookkeeping or self-employment etc)
and community employment wouldn’t be affected because the community wouldn’t see prison due to circumcision as shameful, they'd see it as persecution.

So this wouldn’t deter the most insular groups — it would mainly punish the families already closest to change.

OP posts:
Blushingm · 04/01/2026 18:27

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 18:25

This would actively harm children.

You are proposing:
Prison sentences for parents who are otherwise loving and non-violent

Removal or supervision of children not because of ongoing risk

Pre-emptive child protection orders on babies for something that hasn’t happened yet

Child protection law exists to protect children from ongoing or likely harm, not to punish parents for ideological non-compliance. Removing children or imprisoning parents is an extreme measure used where there is demonstrable, continuing risk — not as a deterrent strategy.

Courts, prisons, probation, and children’s services are already overstretched and
Families would disengage entirely from health and social services & move underground, becoming more dangerous.

‘Harm’ could be considered allowing unnecessary medical procedures - especially when carried out by non medically trained or regulated people

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 18:25

Periperi2025 · 04/01/2026 18:17

Hopefully once you stepped in after the first male baby was mutilated, with either child protection order or jailing a parent then they would think twice about doing it the next time. Any subsequent children could be placed on child protection orders from birth.

It might be difficult, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Edited

This would actively harm children.

You are proposing:
Prison sentences for parents who are otherwise loving and non-violent

Removal or supervision of children not because of ongoing risk

Pre-emptive child protection orders on babies for something that hasn’t happened yet

Child protection law exists to protect children from ongoing or likely harm, not to punish parents for ideological non-compliance. Removing children or imprisoning parents is an extreme measure used where there is demonstrable, continuing risk — not as a deterrent strategy.

Courts, prisons, probation, and children’s services are already overstretched and
Families would disengage entirely from health and social services & move underground, becoming more dangerous.

OP posts:
Blushingm · 04/01/2026 18:23

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 18:15

I will tackle this point by point.

Career ending will not be such an issue for Haredis, as men traditionally study Torah rather than do paid work. Women tend to support the family financially by doing paid work in community. If men work they tend to do similar. Circumcision bans would probably not affect their employment prospects as much as a secular person, as community would not agree with law.

Otoh Orthodox , Masorti & Reform would have more issues as they usually work in the wider community.

Any conviction of cruelty etc would preclude someone from many types of job - anything that needs a DBS check so nursing, teaching, child care, community carer.

it would be both parents prosecuted - both would have a criminal record

Periperi2025 · 04/01/2026 18:17

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 17:45

Haredi families are very large often, ditto some Muslims. It might involve taking away 3 or 4 boys per family potentially. Would girls be allowed to stay with the parents (assuming they're not jailed)?

Hopefully once you stepped in after the first male baby was mutilated, with either child protection order or jailing a parent then they would think twice about doing it the next time. Any subsequent children could be placed on child protection orders from birth.

It might be difficult, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 18:16

SumUp · 04/01/2026 18:12

I cannot speak to the orthodox communities but British Jewish mum friends when my kids were small suggested that the practice of circumcising babies is dying out. They give their sons the option to choose when they are older, but realistically, what teenage boy will electively choose (and pay) to have his foreskin removed? These women followed Reform Judaism.

Yes, most Jews are not practising or at least not super Orthodox. Reform Jews are much more likely to question at least infant circumcision.

Haredi & Orthodox are a different matter, Masorti too to some extent.

OP posts:
Carla786 · 04/01/2026 18:15

blubberyboo · 04/01/2026 17:56

Lol

What a pathetic thread of you trying to defend the indefensible..

They should be in jail for the same length of time as any other knife attack on a child

Then probation on release and supervised access to their one child.

Its enough to interrupt their procreation and think twice about doing it to baby 2 or 3

Along with all the other career ending consequences listed above.

I will tackle this point by point.

Career ending will not be such an issue for Haredis, as men traditionally study Torah rather than do paid work. Women tend to support the family financially by doing paid work in community. If men work they tend to do similar. Circumcision bans would probably not affect their employment prospects as much as a secular person, as community would not agree with law.

Otoh Orthodox , Masorti & Reform would have more issues as they usually work in the wider community.

OP posts:
SumUp · 04/01/2026 18:12

I cannot speak to the orthodox communities but British Jewish mum friends when my kids were small suggested that the practice of circumcising babies is dying out. They give their sons the option to choose when they are older, but realistically, what teenage boy will electively choose (and pay) to have his foreskin removed? These women followed Reform Judaism.

Blushingm · 04/01/2026 18:09

Ilikesundays · 04/01/2026 17:57

Actually there is a great deal of medical evidence that male circumcision is protective against a number of conditions, including HIV/AIDS.

You’ll actually find that it has mostly been debunked - if it was the case that circumcision did in fact stop someone contract hiv there would be national campaigns promoting it

blubberyboo · 04/01/2026 17:58

Ilikesundays · 04/01/2026 17:57

Actually there is a great deal of medical evidence that male circumcision is protective against a number of conditions, including HIV/AIDS.

Baby boys dont have sex in order to contract HIV

SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 17:58

I find it amusing that an omnipotent god arranges for his people to end up in a country where the practices of his religion are not respected, but none of the supposed wise men (let me know where the wise women are) still can't get the hint that maybe it's a sign ?

"What you are saying is God can't be in two places at once"
"Of course he can, he's omnipresent for gods sake !"

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Ilikesundays · 04/01/2026 17:57

Actually there is a great deal of medical evidence that male circumcision is protective against a number of conditions, including HIV/AIDS.

blubberyboo · 04/01/2026 17:56

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 17:53

How long do you think they should be in jail for?

Lol

What a pathetic thread of you trying to defend the indefensible..

They should be in jail for the same length of time as any other knife attack on a child

Then probation on release and supervised access to their one child.

Its enough to interrupt their procreation and think twice about doing it to baby 2 or 3

Along with all the other career ending consequences listed above.

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 17:55

Abhannmor · 04/01/2026 17:54

Follow the money...

Yes money I think is why it happens so much in US!

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Abhannmor · 04/01/2026 17:54

NeelyOHara · 04/01/2026 08:17

No confusion, I’ve got sons myself who we taught to wash themselves, never had any problems and I don’t know anyone who has ever had an infection from a foreskin.
Your surgeon sounds like a total quack.

Edited

Follow the money...

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 17:53

blubberyboo · 04/01/2026 17:48

If the first born is a boy then the parents wont be together to create the second born.

Theyll be in separate sex jails

so the family might be smaller than you imagine.

Same way other parents who abuse their children arent placed together in prison

How long do you think they should be in jail for?

OP posts:
Carla786 · 04/01/2026 17:52

GKG1 · 04/01/2026 17:42

This is crazy, I didn’t know this. So Jewish texts suggest that the way God wanted it signalled that boys believe in him was to cut off their foreskin. Help me understand this. Who is it to signal their belief to? Who checks the penises (peni?! Funny if this wasn’t so horrifying).

How are female believers ‘set apart’?

Next question is - how can this signify a believer when a baby literally is not capable of believing?

Sorry the belief answer was faulty. Here's a more accurate one

circumcision isn’t about signalling a baby’s belief in God. Judaism isn’t belief-centred in that way (different from Christianity) Brit milah is understood as a sign of covenant and communal membership, done to the family and community rather than chosen by the infant. No one is “checking penises” — the ritual itself marks belonging, much like baptism historically did. Women are considered fully Jewish by birth under matrilineal descent, so there isn’t an equivalent physical marker.

OP posts:
blubberyboo · 04/01/2026 17:48

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 17:45

Haredi families are very large often, ditto some Muslims. It might involve taking away 3 or 4 boys per family potentially. Would girls be allowed to stay with the parents (assuming they're not jailed)?

If the first born is a boy then the parents wont be together to create the second born.

Theyll be in separate sex jails

so the family might be smaller than you imagine.

Same way other parents who abuse their children arent placed together in prison

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