To think that this is child abuse and should be illegal?

@KidsDrsometimes it is important to say “no, this is wrong” as a society. It matters that schools can teach it is illegal and that a parent who objects is able to access legal help to stop it happening or help to prosecute an abusive co-parent. It won’t change every mind, but it’s perfectly possible to educate and engage as well as saying NO.

In addition, some law changes have helped shift societal attitudes. Gay marriage is an example, as is the legalisation of abortion. Even the public debate about whether to ban could be a hugely influential (similar to the smacking debate).

To be fair, there aren't many people defending it, thank goodness

The defence of circumcision on these threads amazes me, you go on any thead where someone has lost their tether and smacked their child and people talk about the OP like they've murdered someone.

But male circumcision is defended.

Of course it should be banned. Cutting off healthy body parts of any child should be illegal. Circumcision, FGM, “gender affirming” medications are all just bloody wrong. Kids need to be allowed to grow up in to their adult bodies and then decide for themselves what they want to do.

A few things which are relevant to whether criminalising a practice will be useful:

• Is the practice already culturally embedded?

• Can perpetrators be identified and will they be prosecuted?

• What are the unintended consequences?

If a practice is already culturally embedded, unless enforcement is very effective / likelihood of being caught and punished is very high, people will continue that practice even if it is illegal.

At the same time, if the practice is criminalised, those who seek it will go underground, where it is more likely that criminals / those without any scruples will be the ones carrying it out, and conditions for the procedure will deteriorate. Additionally, you introduce a barrier to care seeking if the procedure has complications.

The practice continues, but as a direct consequence of the criminalisation, more babies are seriously harmed and die. The entire moral grounding of making the practice illegal, is to prevent, not cause that outcome.

So though I also feel very strongly that non medical infant circumcision is wrong, and would love to live in a world where it is not practiced, and is criminalised - I don't think we are at the point where criminalisation will do more good than harm.

Before criminalisation can occur, culture change must occur. Education and community engagement achieves this, in the meantime, regulation mitigates the harm.

I find that if you say things in a certain way, people are more likely to reflect and change their minds. And if you choose another way, they will feel judged, become defensive, and embed the very decision you were trying persuade them against.

I choose tact, because I genuinely care that a baby is not circumcised, or that they are immunised, or that they receive the treatment/prophylaxis that they need and that's the outcome I want to achieve. More than I want to release my own emotions on the subject. That is not because my feelings on a subject are the less strong.

Agree. It’s barbarism carried out in the name of religious practice. Unfathomable how any parent who claims to love their baby boy wants to cut off a part of his body.

Of course it should be illegal. Cutting healthy body parts because a man in the sky says so is fucking wrong

I have never heard that as an excuse. It should be banned.

Not wrong. And everyone else is afraid to agree!

I think American women think uncircumcised men are unhygienic?? A couple I know say that anyway!

I had a Jewish boyfriend as a teen. He was circumcised by the family rabbi when he was a few days old.. a ceremony called a bris? I remember thinking it was so weird at the time..

What am I Missing? Why would she want it done?

No but in the US it is pushed by hospitals

Just to be clear, it’s not always done in a hospital. There is no legal requirement for the person doing it to have any medical qualifications which is quite mind blowing.

I already apologised to the OP for not reading the BBC report in a previous post.

I agree what is stopping prosecutions of FGM which is outlawed? It’s not like there is no evidence. If the parent hasn’t reported the person who mutilated their daughter then it can only be assumed the parent is complicit.

Boys - if it’s legal I guess it’s trickier - maybe there’s a campaign? I’m happy to write a letter if someone has any ideas on how we can protect boys?

Culture isn’t an excuse. It isn’t something done regularly in Britain and it’s unnecessary for most boys. Some cultures have practices that are barbaric - (FGM and stoning women to death spring to mind but I could list many more) - culture doesn’t mean it’s a reason to continue to carry out the practice in Britain. Victorian children were given laudanum, you could buy it - it was given to them by their parents but it was also cruel and eventually outlawed (quite rightly). I’m sure no parent would dream of giving their baby laudeanum nowadays.

Op happy to sign a petition or write a letter if you would like me to.

They are told it will stop penile cancer, stis, vd etc, and its better than doing it later.....like they will have to do it....also a big thing about it looking better and uncircumcised is dirty. Nothing to fo with money the hospital makes of course.

It's done for cultural and/or religious reasons. It won't be possible to get it criminalised in the UK, because of the diverse cultures.

This death was obviously very tragic, but baby boys are being circumcised all the time in the UK. It's not just Jewish and the Muslim religions...a lot those of African origin do it here in the UK too.

No, it isn't any different. It's genital mutilation. You do realise there are different degrees of FGM too don't you?

Are "some" of those OK?

I already apologised to the OP for not reading the BBC report in a previous post.

Absolutely agree. If there is a medical reason for circumcision (recurrent infections resulting from a tight foreskin etc) I can understand a surgical procedure in a medical facility, but I think it is time this was up there along side FGM.

Nothing will happen because everyone is afraid of upsetting Muslims and Jewish people. They would rather let babies suffer than make it illegal.

Yes, OP, it should be banned unless medically indicated.

No health issues apart from potential infection and death, as in the OP.