To be jealous of teacher friend?

I agree that your job is a dreadful one now. I honestly couldnt do it.

But your colleague that jumped ship - surely her role.could be under threat as so many private schools are closing following the VAT change?

Teaching really isn’t what it once was. Good friend of mine (male) accused of inappropriate behaviour and had the police turn up at his home - his wife was heavily pregnant. He was suspended- found that nothing had happened and the girl was a fantasist who had done this before. He was traumatised by the whole experience and has left teaching. He was a fantastic teacher too. The whole experience was that the pupil was automatically believed immediately until proven otherwise. This process took weeks due to the Local Government Safeguarding Officer only working part time.

All teachers should like dc. The fact the parents have money doesn’t make the children horrible. Many private schools make absolutely certain dc going there understand about the less privileged in society here or abroad. The teachers in private schools come from a variety of backgrounds. They are united by teaching.

@Notheretoday Of course you should apply for another job. My DDs boarded and some of the perks you list didn’t ring true for us! Parents evenings were after school. Sports teachers worked on Saturdays. Days were long for some staff. My DDs did 8.30 to 7.30 and that included supervised prep. Lunch was long and many clubs were on offer - run by teachers! Both at lunchtime and evenings. Many didn’t disappear at 3.30pm. They also went on school trips and residentials and were very present at school. Longer holidays but busy days. Yes, behaviour was good and atmosphere.

You will have to be nice to parents! You will have to look fairly smart. Don’t be morally upset though. Your state school should be better run. SLT need to buck up.

In your situation, I would look around for another job.
State or private sector.
As someone with kids, I'd personally prefer you stayed in the state sector!

You sound like a good teacher who is using your position to do purposeful work with the students in front of you, which is all any of us can do, I guess 😊
I don’t agree that I’m twisting the facts - or that teaching in the state sector won’t make a difference (for example, my school gets excellent results in a deprived area, students have high aspirations etc - to me that is making a difference as these students may go on to work in positions where they can effect further change etc). However, you articulate the nuances of the situation well - for example house prices in good school catchments, grammar schools (which I also feel uncomfortable about 😆 as parents buy their kids’ way in through tuition) etc. Reflecting on my own life, I l bought a house in an area with good schools - kind of by accident as I was young and not forward-thinking at the time - where many could not afford to buy. So my DC’s relative privilege is securing them a better education, really. All food for thought. Thank you for the interesting conversation and sorry OP for slightly derailing your thread!

I’ve been there as a secondary school teacher and experienced most of what you’re describing. I do really feel for you and I don’t blame you for feeling jealous.

It’s hard to see a way out but your mental health and well-being is important. Private schools aren’t the only option, there’s further education colleges etc. I left and moved to adult education and it was the best thing i did.

Ex-teacher (retired over a decade ago) here: I spent most of my career in state schools (just a few short term contracts in private schools towards the end) BUT if I were starting out again, or if one of my children wanted to teach, I'd tell them to go into the private sector. It's not that it is "easy" - in fact most private schools will demand longer hours on extra-curricular, trips etc, but smaller classes, more resources and supportive parents (mostly) make life a lot less of a battle.

Anyway that's my take on this.

I think you're twisting the facts to justify what is a very admirable, if misguided, moral position.

Societal inequality will always exist. It is impossible to eradicate it. Even in state education, inequality exists through the grammar school system, and through the fact that all schools admit through catchment areas. Middle class people can effectively create socially unequal schools in areas where property prices within catchment areas make it impossible for people of a lower social class to send their children to their preferred school.

In an ideal world, private schools shouldn't need to exist, just like private healthcare shouldn't need to exist. But while the government I am forced to live under refuses to adequately invest in public services, my moral preferences are not my reality, and I am powerless to change that. Me working in a state school and putting up with feral behaviour, an overwhelming workload and a curriculum that isn't fit for purpose in order to make some kind of moral stand against private schools is going to achieve diddly squat in enabling social inequality, so I'd rather keep my sanity and teach in an environment where I can at least be enabled to do my job properly. I wouldn't judge any colleague who chose to do the same.

I always say to anyone feeling in a moral quandary over teaching in a private school - children are children wherever you are, and all children deserve good teachers.

The children I teach are far more likely to go into positions of influence in society than those in my local comp - whether I like it or not, that is reality, and I can't change that - and so I do my utmost to instil in my students a sense of moral and social responsibility and an awareness of their privilege, so that when they are forming policy or making laws or whatever in the future, they do so with compassion and fairness. I think for my students, having a teacher who is not from the same background as them, and who makes them aware of the world outside of their own privilege, is really vital to helping them become fully rounded adults. I'm sure you'll roll your eyes at that, but I think it's important to recognise that private school teachers do play a part in supporting social equality too - just from a different angle.

Oh come on, no need to be jelly, just get yourself a decent job?!

I am in awe of Teachers.i don't honestly know how they do it! My Cousins are Teaching. All I will say is to do what's best for you.Many Secondary schools are difficult. Behaviour and pressure from ever changing govt methods.Believe me just go for it !

If posters on this thread want less Private Schools, then introduce what parents want more off : Grammar Schools . However, the Labour Party have come up with a more egalitarian way apparently by introducing VAT. Simple, in that it reduces the number of Private School Children, without having to compromise the Comprehensive Schooling System ! 'Brilliant ' I wish I thought have doing that, rather than enacting the type of schools that parents want and not what ideologues or the NEC want.

I worked in one while being ideologically opposed to them in principle. Unfortunately the state sector is what it is and I felt unable to continue teaching in it, so it was throw my morals out the window or quit teaching. In the end I did quit but I managed 6 more years in my profession and felt it was a choice to leave then rather than a necessity.

I wonder if people object to private health insurance on moral grounds too? Ideally the NHS would function properly, but it doesn’t. I wonder how many people choose not to have private health insurance when they could afford it as a point of principle?

Lots of the parents at the private I teach at would very much like NOT to be paying 20k a year but are doing so because the state offering locally is poor, mostly due to the wider demographic, not a reflection on the schools themselves. People talk about "avoiding oiks" like it's a bad thing but if you phrase it as "removing my child from an atmosphere of disruption and / or violence" it becomes harder to argue with as a parental goal. I would have loved to have saved myself 5 years of fees and two remortages if there was a free school available that met my DCs needs. The pp is right that any government who actually wants to dismantle private education should do it by removing the need for them.

Private schools in fact existed before state schools, when education was the preserve of a privileged few - they’re not a product of a failing state system, but the cornerstone of the unequal two tier system. Universal education was introduced relatively recently to tackle social inequality, yet those with power and privilege continued/continue to send their children to private school. If the private system didn’t exist, you could argue that investment in state education would become a priority.

I see that you work in a private school, so of course you believe the private school system is morally justified. To return to the OP’s original question - if they don’t believe the private school system is morally justified, then I would not recommend they compromise their morals to work in one, regardless of perks.

Some people would always want to send their children to private regardless of how good state schools were . This is why I do believe that they on the whole exist to perpetuate inequality (with the exception of SEND private schools - but there is a whole other issue). It's the old school network that is definitely still in operation in many jobs and careers, particularly in the city, that attracts many parents when they are thinking of giving their children the best opportunities through what school they send them too etc. Of course, some supporters of private schools would strongly deny this.

I do agree with you on money and investment into state schools, someone with a cynical view might suggest that this money is being kept from state schools in order to maintain the status quo in the education system.. there was enough of an outcry with the introduction of VAT on private schools fees, which we all know was symbolic rather than providing any real money for the state sector. I imagine that more of a fuss might be made if actual money was put into the state sector to level it up with the private sector. (I would bet there are many private companies benefiting from the billions invested into that train line you mention who would object to that being cancelled in favour of the money going to schools!)

I voted Yabu as you can do the same, as your former colleague.

I don't really get why your posting.

@thedramaQueen

Of course private schools do perpetuate inequality, and I am very aware of that. But I don't agree that they exist to perpetuate inequality; I think that's a far too simplistic way of looking at a very complex problem.

Private schools largely exist because of state schools' failures.

If state schools offered the same standard of education as private schools, they wouldn't need to exist.

The fact that state schools don't offer this, isn't the fault of private schools or of the children who attend them.

People who send their children to private schools pay just as much tax towards state education as everyone else. As do those of us who work in them.

There is plenty of money washing around for the government to invest into state schools to make them more like private schools. The fact that the government would rather spend over a billion pounds on a train line to nowhere rather than on making teaching a more attractive profession and building new schools is why so many parents have had to choose to opt out of the state system.

This is your take. I’ve been teaching over 25 years and don’t feel like this regarding private schools. While I agree with many of your points regarding lack of funding in the state sector. Private schools exist mainly to perpetuate inequalities society and if you deny that you’re not paying attention.

@EnidSpyton I’m a new-ish teacher but worked for many years in another sector where I looked at societal issues. Please don’t asssume I’m naive due to inexperience. Private schools are at best symptomatic of a huge societal divide/unfairness, whatever the root causes. In my opinion.

I was going to suggest moving to a grammar school if they exist in your area. A family member of mine is a secondary teacher and was very disillusioned with the decline in student behaviour and as a last ditch attempt to stay with teaching moved to a girls’ grammar to see if that improved matters. He actually enjoys teaching again now and it has definitely improved his mental wellbeing.
I would agree that SEN schools are not easier. My amazing DIL is a teacher in a SEN school and loves it but has had time off for stress and she’s physically assaulted very, very regularly. There’s also a very high staff turnover and that’s not unusual in SEN schools.
I hope you find what you’re looking for. I stepped away from primary teaching three years ago and now work in a different sector. I miss all that comes with having your own class but the improvement in my work- life balance has been transformative.

My sister has been a teacher for 28 years and currently Head of Sixth Form at a Girls Grammar School. She says behavior even there is similarly to that of good Comprehensive about 15 years ago !

Just FYI your friends in private schools wouldn't be allowed to tell you anything other than a well-polished and glowing version of events. Every interaction with anyone is a "touch point". Our whole lives revolve around marketing.

The state sector is really getting a bashing here. There are great schools out there even in the state sector. My school (inner city) is part of one of “those academy chains” that also get a bashing on here for being too strict - virtually zero behaviour issues though!

I was going to suggest moving to a grammar school if they exist in your area. A family member of mine is a secondary teacher and was very disillusioned with the decline in student behaviour and as a last ditch attempt to stay with teaching moved to a girls’ grammar to see if that improved matters. He actually enjoys teaching again now and it has definitely improved his mental wellbeing.

I would agree that SEN schools are not easier. My amazing DIL is a teacher in a SEN school and loves it but has had time off for stress and she’s physically assaulted very, very regularly. There’s also a very high staff turnover and that’s not unusual in SEN schools.

I hope you find what you’re looking for. I stepped away from primary teaching three years ago and now work in a different sector. I miss all that comes with having your own class but the improvement in my work- life balance has been transformative.

Haven’t RTFT but I moved from state to private 9 years ago. Prep rather than secondary. All independents are different. I had:

very small classes - yes, max 16. Some in the school under 10.
lengthy holidays (four weeks at Christmas, July and Aug off!). - not quite this long but about 3-4 weeks more than state schools
doesn't have to work on Saturdays or after school. - no Saturdays, though many independents do
All meetings, including parents' meetings, are within the school day - no
lighter timetable - yes
private health care - no
free financial advice - no
so many expensive resources at her fingertips, to use for planning and in lessons - yes
free use of the facilities, including swimming pool and posh gym - no facilities like this at my school
better pay and pension - no. Left the TPS in 2020. Pay barely went up (2-4% per year, no move on pay scale) in 7 years. I started in equivalent of UPS1, which was worth about m2 when I left.
lovely work environment, - yes mostly
with lots of perks like free food and tickets to events in the town - no
crucially - no behaviour issues whatsoever. It's a highly selective school, so all of the kids are very able and determined to do well. I thought they'd be really entitled, but she said they're all very respectful - yes

But, the school closed last year due to low pupil numbers.

Id say expect worse pay and pension than state and at least some Saturdays to be the norm in most independents. But for me it was better in most ways until I left teaching completely. I left due to boredom and wanting to do something else rather than stress though.