Historical drama

I think this is the real issue. It’s a deep and structural one to do with who is commissioning and making material. Rather than another version of King Lear/Pride and Prejudice etc, why not broaden our horizons and seek out stories from other parts of the world and society that will naturally feature people who are/look/speak in ways we’re not so familiar with?
Indhu Rubasingham at the Kiln Theatre and now the National is a good example of how someone from a different background and with a different point of view can change the landscape for writers, directors, actors and other performers of colour.

I was in school in 1980s, west of Scotland. Not rural. We had less than 20 ethnic minority kids in our school of 1,400. Whenever I see ethnic minorities in drama set in earlier times it seems extremely unrealistic - like giving someone in a dickens reproduction an iPhone - and is quite distracting.

I see the issue with ethnic minority actors not getting the same opportunities otherwise though.

If I’m watching a tv programme or film I’m not concerned if a character is from an ethic background or speaks with a different accent my only Issue is if the person is a bad actor. I think most historical dramas have a great cast and I trust the casting director to choose the best person for the job.

I’d assume that about a fifth of the best actors would also be black.

You understand about representation and under representation, right? I can’t believe this is still something we have to explain.

Oh do feck right off with this divisive bollox.

The Windrush generation started coming to the UK in the 40's never mind the 60's.

What a stupid thing to be bothered by.

Given improvements in modern dental health, by the OPs premise only actors with a mouth like a bombed terrrace should play parts in historical dramas.

100% this.

Any dramas are always an interpretation and a lot of artistic licence is always taken in various different ways. One of the most recent things is the number of A listers having so much work done it’s difficult for them to effectively communicate emotions which I personally thing is more an issue. I’ve not seen anything yet which had a POC actor and thought it was difficult to subsequently understand or enjoy the story.

Forward thinking policies are aiming to make the arts more inclusive so get used to more diversity is all I can say.

YABU…I’m assuming you’re white and see yourself represented in all era’s and historical settings. I am white also so cannot speak for people of colour., but my personal understanding is representation and diversity in modern programming so the largest amount of people are represented. I really really dislike this view that if PoC weren’t there in the 60’s they can’t be in programs made now! This is how we combat discrimination, by making sure they are. Or they could just be the best actors, with the best audition for the role?

there may very well have been hundreds but they would still have been 0.001 percent of the population and concentrated heavily in London. Your average rural villager in Somerset or West Lothian could absolutely have gone their whole life without seeing a black person - just like your average rural villager in 1500s china could have gone theirs without ever seeing a white person!

OP there was a very long thread on this a few months ago but to be honest this one is already distilling the two arguments either side - either authenticity is more important or representation is more important. Most people think the truth is somewhere in the middle and can vary depending on the type of programme.
Most of the time someone's race isn't that important. Sometimes it is.

But if you make one or more of her anonymous ladies in waiting or servants black, that is misrepresenting the historical situation, which gives people a false impression of what things were like

Does that matter? If you're looking at anything set a few hundred years ago, I guarantee everyone will be cleaner than they would have been in real life. They will be speaking a different version of English compared to the real dialect. They will probably be eating food that wasn't right for the time, the clothes could be wrong, the whole story could be only very, very loosely based on what actually happened (see Braveheart as a previously mentioned example). Nobody complains that people watching will get a false impression of what life was like if the TV-watching public see Henry VIII eating potatoes, but heaven forbid they see a black person in the background, that's not acceptable! FFS.

Most people are seriously uneducated though. I think you're indulging in wishful thinking.

I would say the opposite - a black actor in a lead part like AB is so obviously colour-blind casting that it would take a seriously under-educated person not to realise this, so no harm done, and in fact it could be a bonus if the actor is fabulous and we wouldn't otherwise get to see them.
But if you make one or more of her anonymous ladies in waiting or servants black, that is misrepresenting the historical situation, which gives people a false impression of what things were like.

Because around 20% of the British population isn't white and so about one fifth of roles need to go to them - otherwise it's discrimination.

So that's more important than casting the best actor? The artistic merit is less important than the political message?

And an Australian William Wallace.

But I'd put money that I wouldn't be cast in the role of Muhammad Ali's son though.

Given how shit costume tend to research the period, leeway with the actual dates etc skin colour is the least of the issue.

Yes I agree.

And yet these threads come up on a regular basis and are incredibly vituperative, as if raceblind casting is doing some kind of injury to the poster.

You're just twisting what you think people think to suit your narrative. It's insulting.

I found the casting of Anne Boleyn in that series to be totally rediculous. Black farmers in the Yorkshire Dales in the 1930’s (All Creatures Great and Small) was unrealistic, but a black Anne Boleyn was a step too far. You have to be a bit more realistic when featuring real people from history. There is also the issue that no one would cast a white actor to portray somebody who was black in real life.

it’s not about erasing prejudice from the past. It’s when there is a fictional show set in the past, that is pure fiction and not actually exploring themes of race and prejudice then using colourblind casting is preferable to making a show with only white people.

I understand that is your take on it. I disagree. You're presenting it as if that's entirely agreed upon. When in fact it's just been decided upon by a small group of people. As a trend for the 2020s.

And why is it preferable?

I think this is the best analysis I have read on this. Most people aren’t going to look deeper, many people absorb their understanding of history from fictional sources. If we aren’t honest about who was where, doing what, isn’t there a danger that understanding of the impacts of historical inequalities and oppression will just be blurred and sidelined and over time disappear from the generally understood historical record?

As others have said, colour blind casting is very common these days. Personally, I prefer period dramas to be historically accurate where possible. I find it hard to watch American ones, because they'll be set in the 19th century and have the women all with full modern makeup and botox! Instead of just adding more non white actors to the usual rural English period drama setting, I’d be much more keen to see more of them set in other parts of the world. That would be really interesting and a good way to get more diverse casting.

@Banananew
I was borough up in a very rural area in the 1960s/70s and there were a few black people around.
One of my closest friends at high school was mixed race. Her father was a married black American servicemen at a base in East Anglia who went back to the US leaving my friend’s mum as a single parent.
I was also at primary school with a black girl and another mixed race girl.

Go to any theatre in the UK and you will see not just colour-blind casting, but gender-blind casting too. After a while, you don't even notice it. If the actor is good in the role, it ceases to become an issue, because they're acting.