Husband thinks it’s ok to let children change baby’s nappy

Absolutely with you on this. I wouldn't even allow a sibling to touch the private parts of their younger brother or sister. We bring our children up to understand that your private parts are yours, no-one should be touching them without your consent etc. This situation would be blurring those lessons. I can't see it as comparable as a nursery worker changing a nappy as they have to do that as part of their duty of care.

Your boundaries also need to be respected so that you are comfortable with the care that is given to your baby and so that you feel safe.

Taking this slightly to one side.. if you were to say, 'I only want the baby's parents to change his nappy'. Then that should be respected by your husband, even if his sister / cousin / neighbour is totally relaxed withe aunties / uncles / cousins / friends changing nappies.. that is their choice not yours.

Your boundaries, responses and expectations are based on your experiences which may be different to his experiences. I believe that your response is proportionate and correct.

If you felt the need to explore this more deeply, you could chat to someone about it so that you gain confidence in asserting your wishes and perhaps if necessary, joint counselling to ensure that your husband understands and complies.

YANBU OP. Tell him this makes you really uncomfortable and whether he agrees this is a two parent agreement situation where either one of you can disagree and the other has to accept it. This is a safeguarding issue and he needs to accept that.

Big red flag. Absolutely grim. At best he’s an idiot who doesn’t understand/care about safeguarding, at worst he’s got bad intentions…

I think it's ok to ask the child to fetch wipes or nappy etc, but wiping the baby and applying barrier cream should be done by the adult in charge to ensure it's done properly. A 4yo is still very young and shouldn't be sticking their fingers in another child's private parts. Aside from any hygiene concerns, they could hurt the baby if they have sharp fingernails, or if they're not gentle enough.

“She enjoys it” ? Massive red flag op.

I don't think there's anything wrong with including an older sibling as part of the circle of trusted people who can provide intimate care. The important thing is that as parents you decide who will be included in that circle carefully and in agreement with each other, then hold to that boundary.
I think in this case your wishes override your husband's, as there is no benefit to either child that the 4 year is involved in every part of the care, it makes you uncomfortable, and the older child can help in ways you're comfortable with.

YANBU OP. Also, I wouldn’t be happy as the other child’s parent as they’re quite young to distinguish between this innocent touching of private parts/areas and the not innocent kind.

I wouldn’t let my 2yo toddler help change my baby beyond things like passing me the pack of wipes and pressing the sticky tabs down. She knows the private parts song and will actually say occasionally “Baby’s name’s private parts” if she sees me doing a change.

It also wouldn’t be ok if it was a sibling in my opinion. Although, having had to deal with CSA, I learnt a lot about safeguarding and you are right that it’s not safe to teach either child that’s it’s ok to touch others’ privates/have someone else touch theirs.

In my experience, people who have been through SA quite often downplay red flags to themselves possibly because they are always trying not to overreact as a consequence of their trauma.

I would not allow this, maybe bringing over clean cloths or nappies but I never allowed nappy change to be a spectator sport for children or adults.

Kids can help with all sorts of things. They can also "help" with lots of things, i.e., be involved in some way that entertains and amuses them, but doesn't actually contribute to getting the task down (or hinders the process). When you do that, you are turning the task into a game, and that's fine. But changing nappies... that's a thing that just needs to be done for the comfort of a baby, and I don't think "let's have a go at rubbing cream on baby's bits" is the sort of task that can or should be treated as a game for small children. If nothing else, they don't have the coordination - most of them can't manage to stroke a dog without being awkward, they shouldn't be practising fine motor skills on a baby's genitals 😬

From the thread title I thought it might be about an older sibling (11 yo upwards) changing the baby, and thought if they'd been taught how to do it properly by a parent and supervised it would be fine, but what you are talking about is not appropriate at all. Your own 4 yo wanting to 'help' is fine, but not actually doing any of the intimate care, but someone else's child doesn't need to be involved at all.

It’s ok to ask an older sibling to bring something/ hold something.
It’s absolutely inappropriate for anyone but a sibling to be involved in any way, even to stand and watch. If I were a parent of this child I would be furious.

agreed. Your husband is at best a fucking idiot OP, at worst I would be concerned about leaving him unsupervised with children.

I don't think it's appropriate for an unrelated 4 year old to be applying barrier cream - fine to be helping bring nappies or chat to the baby while nappy is being changed. Does your husband know your history with SA? You need to have a calm conversation about what you're comfortable with and what you're not when it comes to your own child.

Your dh is an absolute knob.... Does he often railroad you and get his own way?

I think this is extremely concerning. If your husband genuinely thinks this is ok he needs educating in safeguarding. I would see this as a red flag from him in all honesty. Sorry OP.

@Hedgehogtimeagain exactly.

The DH’s response of “she likes it” made my eyebrows raise.

That is unusual, to say the least. Why would that be relevant? That’s not how 4 year olds work. They aren’t absolutely dying to put Sudocrem on babies and if they are it should be discouraged as it’s not hygienic nor appropriate.

How does the DH know she likes it? Why is he advocating for her to continue doing it? His response to being told it has to stop will be interesting and telling.

Impressed with all of the YANBU responses!

Only this morning I was chatting with my 4 year old sons who can now recite that only Mummy, Daddy or a dr with Mummy or Daddy there touch their penis. We've been telling them that since they were under 2 and we also tell it to our younger child when he tries to grab their pens when on the toilet. Definitely wouldn't be happy about anyone physically helping with nappy changes so that everyone understands what is safe touch

Only this morning I was chatting with my 4 year old sons who can now recite that only Mummy, Daddy or a dr with Mummy or Daddy there touch their penis. We've been telling them that since they were under 2 and we also tell it to our younger child when he tries to grab their pens when on the toilet. Definitely wouldn't be happy about anyone physically helping with nappy changes so that everyone understands what is safe touch

Not unreasonable, pressed with my fat fingers though and ut went to yabu on the voting 🤦🏼‍♀️.

As the other parent, my dd watching your husband wouldn't bother me so much fir curiosity - my eldest and friends used to and used to change their 'babies' (dollies) at the same time. But the creaming/changing the nappy is a no no and could defo confuse them, especially as at Reception they'll learn PANTS.

She can help by bringing things needed and distract the baby by waving a rattle for her or something if that's needed.

I am questioning why the husband wants to ‘normalise’ the touching of another child’s genitals, could this be so the 4 year olds boundaries are blurred when someone else touches the 4 year old?

I know no one wants to consider this as a possibility as it’s horrific, but that’s where my primary concern lies. What is his motivation in removing those boundaries from the 4 year old, potentially so she won’t see it as strange if he does the same thing to her?

Safeguarding of a child can never be taken too seriously, he needs to have no unsupervised access to this 4 year old.

OP, think back to when you were 4. Then imagine a friends dad had supervised you spreading cream on a babies genitals. Surely you can see this is concerning from an adults point of view, despite his clear attempts to gaslight you into thinking you are the weird one and you are over reacting due to your own history.

You know you aren’t over reacting, because you are posting here. You know this isn’t right.

You are in the right and he should listen to your advice. How does the child’s parent feel? Cos I wouldn’t be happy if my 4 year old was doing this. At 4 years old pre schools and schools are teaching them that pants are private - Google the NSPCC Pantosaurus video. My kids know pants are private - what’s in them is private etc. so your husband is giving this kid very confusing ideas.

OP, after your first post I was going to say YABU but for good reason, in other words it’s probably a bit of an extreme reaction but I get why you feel that way.

After reading your second post, YANBU as the scenario you have given is weird. The fact that she’s not a family member but your partner is insisting she does it doesn’t sit right. If she were a sibling and maybe a bit older, maybe. A non-related 4 yer old, nope.

You are quite right about teaching children about what is acceptable and what is not. At 4, they need to be learning that there are boundaries about other people’s bodies.

If I had a baby and a friend’s 4 year starting changing my baby’s nappy and started smearing Sudocrem on them I wouldn’t be accepting of it.

(There will probably be lots of people saying “Oh for goodness sake, take help where you can get it and stop being so precious. Babies don’t need to be asked if they want their nappy changed! No wonder society is crumbling if this is how we pander to children…”. Ignore them. The don’t get the subtleties of what you’re concerned about)

Before your update I was in the YABU gang as my eldest 5yo does this occasionally as she wants to play part in looking after sibling - it’s a bonding thing. Friends kid, nah I draw the line.