Court of Protection Process - how bad is it?

A little handy hint about LPA applications - when we helped MIL do hers we did them online then printed everything off to get it signed. We then sent off the forms. They were returned after a couple of weeks as incomplete - what I’d mistakenly done was removed all the blank pages, which apparently I shouldn’t have done!
So make sure you send back all the pages, even blank ones…

Excellent advice! I got mine signed and witnessed etc over two or three days and that made things complicated. Having everyone there in one place at the same (as I did for my partner's one) made it so much easier!

Well done
Might I advise getting the person who will be the certificate provider there too. Getting them to sign same day as your parents (ideally) is really important then the attorneys can sign after.
My mums neighbour was hers and I arranged everyone, like a military effort to all be there to get it done and dusted in 1 go.
I got it all printed and post it notes for each person laid out then it was sign sign sign.

I agree with PP that people can find the concept of making legal arrangements increasingly daunting as they get older.

Handled gently, they would probably be relieved and grateful if you turn up with the documents ready filled out for them to sign. They are not very complicated and you can just go over what they are saying with them. There is a place on the Health form for their preferences, but they don't have to fill that in and thus think it all through if they don't want to. Better if they are confident that you know what their attitude to treatment/dying is and will honour that.

Maybe you could speak to a neighbour who could be ready to witness their signatures.

Ideally they would be attorneys for each other, plus you and any sibling(s), with the power to act jointly or severally (ie just one of you, or all of you) when making decisions.

Another thing is their Wills. It's surprisingly helpful if you are an Executor. I was dealing with a relative's estate a while ago and most institutions wanted to deal with one of her Executors, which fortunately I was. I had to send a copy of the Will to some to prove this.

Someone I worked with had to do this for her mum as she had dementia. Took her months, and cost thousands.
Get the forms, fill them out as much as you can, go and have a chat to your parents and when they say, yes we must do that, get the forms out and tell them you're saving them the effort of doing it. You'll never regret it.

Or you could do it online on their behalf. It's very easy! I did it for myself and my partner. Input the information, print it off and then get everything signed and witnessed in the right order (that's the crucial part). There are very clear instructions on what to do, so you can't really go wrong.

I finally managed to get my father to do an LPA last year, he’s 93. I had broached it with him on several occasions and he’d agreed it was a good idea. Eventually after a lack of movement on his part I took my laptop over and did it online with him. He was pleased to have done it and I think he felt it was less daunting than he’d originally thought.
Just tell them you’re going round to sort it out and turn up with the forms or your tablet/laptop. It’s like any sort of life admin, we all tend to put it off and need a kick up the bum to do it sometimes

DH has done POA for his parents this year, with him and his sister as the “attorneys” (if that’s the right phrase).

My Mum had a massive stroke, now lacks capacity, and we have no POA. We haven’t gone through Court of Protection.. SS assessed as as “lacking capacity” so they and us are both involved in decisions. I wish we had had POA, things would have been so much easier

Why not arrange for a solicitor who can do this to do a home visit so it can all be don't in one visit. Some solicitors do this for elderly people. I did this for my parents. The solicitor came back the following week with doc documents for us to sign.

Also though I wouldn’t just totally draft the full PoA because they will feel totally cut out of the loop if you don’t discuss with them who they’d like as attorneys or as witnesses.

I have experience of this because my parents ‘didn’t get round to it’ and my dad then lost capacity and we had to do CoP for him.

you don’t need a solicitor but the forms are lengthy and repetitive and you will need access to a lot of their information. It took about 5 months from application to it being granted for us and cost about £450 ish. That then comes out of his estate, the person who doesn’t have capacity pays for it.

re PoA- your best bet is to start the applications online (anyone can start one for anyone else, it’s just all the signatures you need to get in order etc). Print them out and then it’s important you get all the signatures in the right order- although if you do it all in one day then they will all be dated the same 😎

If one of your parents loses capacity, unless the other one has PoA there is NO automatic ability for them to be able to manage accounts and finances and you may find yourself in a situation where nobody can administer household bills etc. Health issues will in any case always be ‘best interest’ but there’s no such thing as ‘next of kin’ when it comes to having rights over money. You need the PoA.

You can draft the LPAs yourself on the OPG website. It’s much more user friendly now. You just pay to register them now. You could draft them and present them to them for signing.

Why not sit down with them at the computer first and set up their bills online. You could also contact the companies to see what their procedures are to prevent being cut off in case Bank Account is only in one name. This will show them how easy things can be. Most companies offer paper bills still from what I can see having just set up some for myself having moved to a new property at 64. It may concern them not to have paper bills. Then, why not set up an appointment with their Bank - their Bank will decide whether or not to go ahead on their behalf if happy this is the right thing to do. I am in no way inferring you have not got their best interests at heart, merely saying it is a service Banks offer having previously worked for one of the major high street ones. Most Banks prefer it. Have they got a GOV ID account. If not, set one up. It may be you have to do step by step but really pressuring is not the answer if they do not want to be pressurised hence nothing happening. It sounds very much like your Dad controls everything so he is the key. Slowly slowly will work far better than presenting him with a POA. They may also not like thinking about dying which is understandable. You do not mention having a family solicitor so this too should be put in place as a key issue. As said, the key to all of this is your Dad, not your Mother, though she may well surprise you once it all starts falling in place i.e. she will be relieved but will not say that. My Dad died intestate albeit in another country. It was hard but, not insurmountable, what had to be done thereafter. You are stronger than you may think.

I had deputyship for my father who lost capacity

Happy to answer any specific questions via pm

In our area, people I know are waiting 12 months + for CoP deputyship.

Having been through the court of protection process, it is long, full of bureaucratic processes and extremely stressful, on an ongoing basis whilst the person is still alive. It’s really unfair if they won’t do the lasting powers. My mum didn’t, I was the only one pushing it, I got ignored and my sister wanted to be appointed deputy at the point when it was too late to do the LPA - she got her wish, and complained about it mercilessly, when it could have been avoided. You can do the lasting powers online, I’d 100% push it or you’re in for a nightmare.

You will not get Deputyship via the Court of Protection unless your parents have been diagnosed with dementia or some other such condition that means they no longer have any capacity to make decisions.
Applying for LPA has to be their decision. If your DF does lose capacity, almost every business will take instruction from your DM, or even from yourself.

Court of protection.. probably around £5000 now v £92 for each LPA

You can do both POAs easily and cheaply online.
I found that the only way to get my very elderly parents to cooperate was by guilt tripping; ie cancelling a holiday if they didn’t at least install a careline. Ditto carers, but dad cancelled them before they even started!
Can you tell them how worried you are and that you’re not sleeping well.. that it would give you so much peace of mind etc?
Maybe get the gov.uk website open and show them that the process is very easy? And cheap 🤞

What I did was do my own LPOA, which made my parents want one too. Prior to that they always talked about it but never got around to doing it. All the details need to be completed online then the whole thing printed and signed in the correct order, before sending to the OOTPG.

I’d agree that printing the forms out for both the PoAs for each of them and just appearing with them is by far the best approach. Fair enough to give them warning first. Also the process requires external support by an unrelated person who has known them I think 2 years and has some standing or profession (can’t exactly remember who, it’s like the passport photo signature but not as demanding I think). Have a think who they are most likely to feel supported by. If that does mean paying a solicitor so that they feel more comfortable, fine, but it’s not necessary. The typical ideal person, infuriatingly, would be the male professional partner of a trusted/admired neighbour or relative. But whatever it takes to get it done. I have been grateful my mother got the finance one, and regretful she wouldn’t do the health one, every day for 4 years.

My mum set up POA in favour of myself and sister after a spell in hospital. It wasn't enacted for several years until she lost capacity due to dementia. Would it reassure your parents to know that that they would not be loosing control/decision making until necessary.
Have you done your own too? (My sister and I and our respective partners have.) Maybe this would also help them move forward.

I’d print it and drop it off. Ask them to go through it and say why don’t you have a look and we can think of who would be best to be witness etc. I do think it’s often the thought of getting the paper work sorted that can feel daunting. But it’s actually pretty easy once you’ve printed it off. There isn’t massive amounts to fill in.

You could also do your own- do you have a partner or sibling? Mention you’re getting yours done too if needed so thought you’d print a bunch off…

I think they get to an age where just getting through the day is hard enough, never mind anything complicated involving a solicitor. As long as they know who they want as attorneys and witnesses, I suggest you arrange to get everyone together at a solicitors office to sign and log the forms. So all your DPs have to do is turn up and sign. Not quite an ambush but more of a "Hey mum and dad, how about you let me organise this because it's clear you are both too busy and we can't let it drift". I've had to firmly "help" my DPs on a few things like this and whilst they noticed what I was doing they were still grateful for the help.

The initial stage is only to set the POA up ready for when it's needed, all the capacity assessments come later (potentially not much later in their case). But it's important the people still have capacity to set up the POA.