I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

But the idea that “deep thinking” is inherently boring has really depressed me.

No-one has said that deep thinking is inherently boring.
Lots of people have said that lighter conversation is, though.

She’s trying to connect with you. I could never discuss anything of any depth with my own mother and it was frustrating. I can talk about trivia as much as anyone but my mother actively avoided anything even vaguely deep and sometimes it felt like she was choosing to not see or understand a large part of who I was. I am not saying your daughter couldn’t dial it back a bit and she will grow out of it when she finishes her studies with a bit of luck.

I agree chit chat is important, its the glue of social life and I agree also that heavy duty conversations can be quite draining. You need both and you need to respect when someone isn’t in the mood for something earnest.

But the idea that anyone who wants to talk about anything more meaningful than what they had for breakfast is boring just makes me sad.

The OP’s daughter is trying to connect with her mother and the OP seems to be inwardly rolling her eyes at the prospect of having to think about anything less superficial. It made me feel very sorry for the daughter.

For someone who apparently identifies as such an intellectual, and so superior to all those "normies" you might want to check your reading comprehension - literally nobody has said they can't handle "an entitely contentless conversation".

What they have said is there needs to be balance, as in all things.

Even the most well dressed, haute couture designer will sometimes be in situations where they need/want to wear comfy clothes to give the dog a bath.

Even a gourmet cooking fine dining Michelin started chef will sometimes need/want to make toast or plain pasta for a fussy five year old.

Even the most dedicated, relentlessly training and improving olympian will sometimes need/want time to just crash out on the sofa.

There is nothing more boring than people who are the same all the time.

Personally I believe being able to adjust your conversation appropriately and interact differently depending on who you are talking to is what makes the difference between your average academic and geniuses. Both steven hawkins and einstein were popular because they made complicated subjects accessible, had other interests beyond academia and had good senses of humour! They engaged at the same level with colleagues and friends who shared their passions -they didn't just monologue at people who weren't interested.

And I find this thread depressing because so many people on it think that anything less than a deep dive into a subject is vacuous and meaningless, and means that anyone weary of a long deep and meaningful conversation is boring and stupid.

There is a whole lot of space between a deep philosophical discussion and 25 minutes about someone's trip to Tesco, which many posters are refusing to acknowledge. And with regard to the OP, they are not for one moment acknowledging that the OP is equally entitled to have a conversation that she can enjoy.

There's a stunning amount of arrogance here.

Does she volunteer for a political party. ? She must. They would love her intelligdnce and foresight. You are lucky. Please remember that.
I work in a deprived school full of teenagers who are unable to speak properly and have limited life chances .. what you have is incredible.

I have a tshirt my daughter got me that says "Warning! May talk spontaneously about Economics" so I'm sure I've been guilty of this. I wouldn't continue with someone who visibly/audibly had no interest though.

Look, it's not like people fall into 'deep thinker' versus 'vacuous smalltalk' categories is it?
Posters here are being quite simplistic. For most of us it's not one or the other.

I went and read on my Kindle in a similar situation. One of them came over to check I was OK!

I think it’s being on the spectrum of autism. My dd is the same ( but without the qualifications). Conversations are heavy. It’s the inability to see that the other person is not enjoying the conversation. I tolerate it more now I know it’s something she struggles with.

💯

Do you think people who make ‘mindless chit chat’ can’t think deeply?

’Chit chat’ is actually wants sustains the world. It’s about making connections.

I can think deeply. I just don’t want to talk about it much.

Oh god I think this might be me.... Introverted and love deep connection. Chit chat and small talk makes my skin crawl. I dread ringing mum because she will tell me everything she's eaten that day and if we meet for a meal, all she talks about is the food in everyone's plates and a long story with no point about an acquaintance I've never met. I find it almost painful.

However I agree with PPs who have said that meeting people where they are is a life skill and I do manage it with other people - I can make pleasant small talk with colleagues etc. There's something about my mum chatting away I find especially triggering.

Perhaps that’s how her daughter likes to connect with people and it is the OP that’s not ‘reading the room’?

To be clear, I don’t really think that. I am trying to point out that there is no right or wrong here. They could easily meet in the middle somehow.

There is a level between small talk and navel gazing.

I find deep philosophical talk all the time to be smothering. It makes me feel suffocated.

It’s not boring not to want deep conversations all the time. I grew up in a house where everything was over analysed and discussed to the nth degree. I found it intrusive. I avoid at all costs now.

Omg you poor thing.

I was once at a kids birthday party where the mums discussed nothing but clothes, nails and hair for over an hour. I wanted to claw my face off, it was so boring.

They were very nice and they did try to include me and I did try my very best to feign interest.

But when one of them said to me "you know when you buy a new outfit but noone comments on it so you take it back...." And I almost got up and left. I couldn't have related less.

There's a time and a place though? Many people can do both. Trying to engage your mum in the mysteries of existence when she wants to check you're OK is not reading the room, is it?

Well said Begonia.

She sounds fabulous! I’m another one who struggles with small talk though, so I can see how it would be challenging for you if you’re the opposite. Unlike some other “deep thinkers” on this thread, I love discussing people and wouldn’t consider it a worthless or shallow - people are infinitely fascinating. Having said that, I don’t have the capacity for long, meaningful conversations at all times. Most of us have busy lives and simply don’t have boundless mental energy to expend on daily philosophical discussions.

OP, it’s quite obvious that your daughter is desperate to connect with you in the way she sees you connect with her brothers. Explain to her that you’re not able to sustain the types of conversation she likes to have but perhaps make an effort to be a bit more inquisitive and engaging yourself; ask her why she thinks or feels a certain way, etc. Maybe set aside some one to one time where you’re actually doing something - playing tennis instead of just talking about it, etc.

This is me.

I find mundane everyday conversations so dull. I just don’t see the point in the kinds of conversations you’re describing, eg what you said about tennis.

For example ‘I went out with Lottie and Millie, I wore the pink dress, she’s gotten engaged and her mum is doing well, think she’ll retire in Italy’

Just… why? I have no interest in giving someone a factual recap of my day or hear theirs, unless there’s a point, or an issue they’re struggling with/ problem that needs solving/ made them think about deeper things. If they went to an exhibition or read a book and wanted to deep dive into it, perfect. If they just want to say how much they love avo toast… No.

It’s not about what you talk about, but how. Superficial just bores me.

My mum’s intellectual in a hard job but wants to switch off in her spare time, look at pretty things and not think about the world’s big debates. To the point that she doesn’t understand many topics.

Used to try to engage with her in the way that I like to engage with people I have a connection with… it was so hard.

In the end I gave up. We just have a superficial relationship where she tells me what people are up to and I nod. Then I tell her my daily events and maybe send a cute picture. Not much contact.

Thankfully she has gotten into a couple of more serious topics now, particularly the environmental impact of overpopulation and overconsumption, and I love that I can have a real conversation with her. I love it, it’s brought us so much closer.

In all honesty it’ll be difficult for you to have a relationship with her, you’re just different people.

But is there something you’re interested in or passionate about at all? Do you like to think deeply about… I don’t know, art, fashion, sports, what goes into being truly great in it? Do you at least watch documentaries?

You could steer the conversation to a topic where you could keep up with her. I think she would be very happy and excited that she can finally talk to you.

She probably dreads the phone calls equally as she likely finds them mundane and switches off.

You both have got to make compromises to have a meaningful relationship

I found this post quite upsetting and depressing. I think deeply about things and find it massively life enhancing to be able to think about life and death things rather than just making mindless chit chat. I would hate to think people feel that they have to keep me at arm’s length because of the risk I might talk about something meaningful.

I ger that there’s a time and place and people need to be able to read when its appropriate and when it’s not. Some people need to learn that not everyone is ready for heavy discussion all the time. But the idea that “deep thinking” is inherently boring has really depressed me.

Please don’t signal to your daughter that you consider her conversations boring.

My DH once applied Wittgenstein in B&Q when we were trying to buy a wood chopper. Ultimately it turned out that Wittgenstein favours Screwfix.

Both DH and I like this sort of conversation (although I have my limits) but are aware our friends, neighbours, work colleagues and most importantly mothers do not and so are able to rein it in.

However I suspect we were unbearable in our twenties. OP has to wait it out.

I am your DD (also ND). I am endlessly curious and like other people who are too; it’s not monologing on a special interest it’s being willing to riff and explore both shallow and deep topics together. I definitely also do small talk. My mum does not communicate in a way that is compatible with mine: we do speak regularly but from my point of view have a very shallow almost meaningless relationship that is held together by the social contract and moral obligation (to my sister mostly). It is what it is.

I would respond that you haven’t thought too deeply about the topic, probably don’t know enough about it to have an informed opinion as you haven’t read up on all the research. Just say, “Honestly Kate, I’m just not in the mindset to think about it.”

I think repetitive emphasis of this is what you need to do. It may come across as uncomfortable at first but in time she may realise she needs to find the right audience for her topics.

My DH used to talk a bit much on some topics I had no interest in. I dialled down my responses to, “Mmmm,” and “That’s interesting.” Absorbed nothing lol.

It is now years later he admitted he used to get so passionate by certain topics and now he couldn’t give a hoot about them. I think people change soon enough.