Jury service expenses are ridiculous

DH was called for the second time last year and he was fuming at how ridiculous the costs are too

I can just see Farage saying “I have the perfect solution to this problem: nobody need be out of pocket again.”

Yep, you guessed it - he would abolish juries in a heartbeat.

I was called when I was still breastfeeding my 18month old. I wrote to them and phoned them to say I couldn’t attend as breastfeeding and no childcare. They said no problem !

Professional juries.

@cabtu What do you suggest??

I would suggest that guilt is evaluated specifically by people who are trained to do so.

If you're unwell, you don't go to 12 random people and ask them to vote on what your diagnosis is. You ask a healthcare professional.

If you get selected for a long trial, everyone goes into court including those on trial. You are all sworn in (15 of us). You are then asked if there is a reason you can’t sit on the long trial. Those who say yes (me!) have to approach the judge one at a time and say the reason. Mine was very personal to do with a family member so all in court knew my business. The judge did excuse three (they still did jury service but other short cases). I was not excused, it was agreed court would not sit for one day only (something that was going to take three days). Later in the 7.5 week trial, one of the defendants broke his tooth and court didn’t sit for about four days as he was in “agony” 🙄

I was only called for jury service once, many years ago. I was happy to do it (no kids and an employer who paid me), but said they might want to know that I worked for a firm of solicitors. No problem! It was 80% tedium, sitting around waiting to be called and (if you weren't) not being sent home until 4pm. I ended up on 3 cases.

The bizarre stories that witnesses for the defence produced were a joy, though, and their barristers were fools. One witness claimed that her son was driving around late at night with a heavy wooden cudgel under the passenger seat because he was "bringing it home from work for his little brother and sister to use to roll out their plasticine". At this point the defence barrister happened to look in my direction, I mouthed "How old are they?" and he established that they were 16 and 17. And a minicab driver who had been robbed was "obviously" lying because he was South Asian. The discussions in the jury room about that one were eye-opening.

I'll be 75 next summer and exempt, which is a bit silly as I now have the time and the still-functioning brain to do it.

We recently had a nightmare getting my grandmother out of it 🤦‍♀️ she was awaiting her dementia assessment at the time! What good would she have been on jury honestly!?

Or anyone? Why SE more likely to be out of pocket? It’s a genuine question - not being snarky as I’ve been SE too

What do you suggest??

Second these comments. I served on a jury hearing evidence in a paedophile case.
So dreadful - unanimously guilty decisions on 20+ charges. Difficult discussions had to be had yet afterwards we had a quick 5 minutes in the jury room before leaving , no follow ups etc.
Cost me a hell of a lot more than lost income.

I'm self employed and jury service expenses wouldn't pay enough, so I'd decline on that basis.

I've done it before as an employee and I was paid my salary, but I couldn't afford to do it now.

...not been called since but feat I may now have broken the charm. Please wait till I've retired!

@ContentedAlpaca We need to keep juries though

No, we don't.

Guilt cannot be determined by a popular vote from 12 people who, in all probability, have no experience or expertise in critical thinking, scientific evidence, or the legal system.

Juries are one of those weird things that no one ever seems to question.

I deferred once but they called me again a few years later and wouldn’t let me defer again even though I had no childcare (they just told me to find childcare!), so be aware of that. I ended up losing a lot of money as the ‘expenses’ they pay are shocking, nowhere near covered my expenses. I then spent 5 days sitting in a room looking at a wall as I didn’t get called to be on a jury anyway, such a waste of time! They let me go after the first week thankfully as the second week there was an 8 week trial starting and I had already told them I couldn’t stay longer than the 2 weeks.

Bloody hell that's ridiculous!

I was called once, more than 30 years ago, and would have served only I was booked to go on a long trip overseas, so was excused that one. I was self-employed then , as now, and don't remember thinking the out of pocket cost would be intolerable. I wonder if it was as £64 then.. Probably still below my ideal day rate in 1991 but not quite so brutally...

I really really don't want to ever be called up. I have a heart complaint (heart fips into an abnormal rhythm) that is triggered by stress/ anxiety and this is would be a huge trigger.

Or the courts provide a creche?

I was called for jury service but my employers said it was inconvenient. I went along to the court and I was immediately discounted as one of the accused was an employee of the company. I was also questioned as a few months previously we'd had a police infuser questioning us about staff. I and one of the directors confirmed we'd never had an employee of that name. We had detailed records of the staff, P45's etc on file. But I had a feeling about one of the staff who modelled as a member of a senior royal. I knew he and another staff member dealt in goods and I just thought they bought cigarettes and spirits back. This staff member had a double barrelled name of his father and mother. So when in court the HMRC officer asked why I hadn't identified him I was quite truthful in that had they mentioned his modelling the royal my fellow director and I would have known who they were referring to.So of course I was let go as I wouldn't have been allowed to sit on the jury. He and his partner were convicted and had a huge fine. But it would have been a long journey daily to the court by public transport.

I had to defer twice and they stopped asking (broken leg and then pregnant). I would have quite liked to do it. My DP did it recently though. He had to work in the evenings to cover his workload.

People with children under a certain age should be excused from jury duty, as they may draw a lengthy trial which may even involved being sequestered.

I think this is a real problem with the jury system that never gets talked about. When Lammy talked about reducing jury trials a lot of people (many lawyers) were up in arms. But they know first hand how many people are excused in advance and then how many are excused by the judge when they’re called for a long trial. It means juries are disproportionately older and wealthier. Plus a sizeable number who have not been excused but know they’re losing work/money by being there and have a strong interest in getting things wrapped up quickly. Hardly 12 of one’s peers is it?

The problem with this you potentially don’t then have a varied jury, having people from different socio-economic backgrounds is part of balancing the jury to reflect the public. And if we say “opt in if you can afford it” it will cut a lot of people out.

Couldnt agree more.

Based on the costs and responsibilities that many people have it means that only those who dont work or dont have children/caring responsibilities are free to serve. It cuts out single parents, low earners, small business owners etc

So that isnt a full cross section of people at all and introduces all of the prejudices that certains sections of society hold. I remember reading about a rape case where the victim said that the jury who found her rapist not guilty, despite overwhelming evidence, was made up of men over the age of 60. It was some years ago now, was either in Cosmo or Marie Claire.

I don't think they will select you if you have small children and no childcare.