I'm scared of my Angry 4year old DD

Stop looking at your 4yo as a mini-adult. She’s a 4yo child.

Stop describing yourself as her best friend, that’s really confusing. You’re her mum, you will always love her. You are not her friend - she will have / make friends at nursery and school. Friends are conditional, they come and go. Mums are constant.

It’s good that her meltdowns happen at home, not at nursery. That shows she feels safe at home, safe to express herself and let everything out.

Hi @AnonSugar @Hiitsmeagain1

How else did she present? Everything you say in your post. Constant movement, never sitting down to watch TV - instead climbing all over the sofa and other furniture whilst watching, or drawing all over her legs with felt tip pens. Or tearing up bits of paper.
Never sitting down for dinner instead always up and down from the table - one bite then twirl around, another bite then run a circuit of the kitchen etc etc.
Rocking back and forth when being ready to or when reading.
Absolutely hellish bedtimes, resisting every single step. And not able to explain why. Finding it so difficult to switch off body and brain for sleep (still a massive challenge, one of us lies with her until she's asleep).
Starting all sorts of craft projects or Lego but screaming and throwing or destroying at the first sign of difficulty. Wanting constant attention - rarely plays alone. Lots of role play with dolls, acting out what happened at school or on a TV show.
Aggressive, violent outbursts at the smallest thing, hitting and kicking us.
'equalising behaviour ' towards older sister, e.g. nudging her when walking into a room where sister is sitting. Going in her room and refusing to leave.
Unable to cope with losing at any game.
Wanting to decide what we play, how we play it, who does what job. Wanting to 'direct'.

'fine' in nursery then school.

How did we get her referred? We ended up going privately. Tried school, tried GP, who believed us but said it's a long wait, can you afford to see someone privately. Initially we just wanted to work out why she was so angry for such a young person, and how to help, work out what we were doing wrong. Eventually the psychologist agreed it was worth getting her assessed for ADHD. I had long suspected but as you need evidence in two settings it was difficult to get anyone to care. The psychologist we had seen lined up a colleague of hers to go into school to observe (with school permission and daughter not being told anything) to help us gather evidence for when we subsequently went for assessment. We had to go to a different clinic as the original one only did combined assessment (along with ASD) at the time.

So we had evidence from school even though the school themselves couldn't see much, apart from a bit of fidgeting and anxiety (which they would not have remarked upon had we not asked).

I don't know if we would have got through triage on the NHS because the form I was shown seemed very tick box and school would not have ticked many boxes. So not ideal if you can't afford to go privately. But if you can gather evidence from any other setting that can be enough (child minder, a club the child attends etc).

Good luck x

Go and seek help with dealing with it before someone gets hurt, and take child to the GP with a video golf what they are doing. Your boundaries aren’t working or it wouldn’t be happening.

It took a long time. I’m sure she was about 4 the first time I went to the GP. The first one heard “headbanging” and immediately went to autism. Referred to paediatrician and it was rejected. Second GP said she’s just taking the piss out of us 😆. School referred us to a Family Support service. Agreed that she was in a safe, loving environment, needs were being met and strategies were being implemented but with no improvement. She wrote me a supporting letter to take to GP.

I went back to the GP in Aug/Sep this year and just broke down. Her meltdowns are not normal for a 6yo. Can be 8+ a day and living with her mood swings is so difficult. GP said they would try the paediatrician route again. I received a letter saying they were (her and her twin) on the fast track waiting list. I almost fell off my chair 😆

As I said above, she didn’t think it was autism but could be very good at masking so referred to ND team, sleep clinic and OT for sensory seeking.

In my opinion, autism and ADHD is still assessed by the symptoms typically presenting in boys so it’s not helpful for girls at all.

I am very glad that you are bringing up a well behaved daughter. You should be proud of yourself and of her.

You must just be on the wind up...

Well, clearly it didn't, because surely you would have only had to been smacked once...?

And it's clearly left you damaged if you think hitting a small helpless child is a good and correct thing to do...

I can only go by observation of results.

Your softy pandering system isn’t too impressive, by such criteria.

My child is 6 and has never been hit.

She's not at all naughty.

We actually teach her how to navigate life and cope and how to be decent without physical assault.

You know, like a decent parent. Not one that teaches them whenever they struggle, the person who they trust and love the most on the planet will resort to violence...

It is definitely worth looking at her diet and removing as much sugar, additives and UPF as possible. All those things can have a huge impact on emotions and emotional control.

I was a child at one time, I was smacked.

It probably improved my behaviour.

Honestly...it won't make her behave.

Did you get smacked once in life as a small child and then magically learned to be perfectly well behaved after?

You'd be the first to rbe upset if someone smacked you for any tiny misdemeanor.

You wouldn't go " ah, fair cop, I needed that and it will definitely stop me losing my shit ever again, what a fantastic way to teach me how to deal with my emotions in.a sensible way"

Why would you HIT A CHILD?

There's literally no reason to hit a child.

That's a good thing then. So there is nothing in her environment that would explain this.

Could you work with her father to keep an "explosion diary" for a while. Note down every wild outburst; time and what preceeded it to see if you can find a pattern.

It sounds like this is something that she doesn't control. You feel afraid but I bet she feels even more afraid. It's scary to be taken over by strong feelings you can't control and act in a way you then regret. I would not punish her at this point but rather help her to navigate her feelings in the aftermath. You can show her a bottle of coke that you shake and then open and ask her if that's how she feels when she lashes out. Talk with her and ask what would help when she loses control ; does she want to be held/left alone?

Make it clear to her that even though you understand that she can't control her feelings she must control her actions. If she feels like punching someone she can punch on her pillow. You can hold it up for her so that she can have a go at it if she wants. Try to make it a joint effort, she must understand that you're on her team and that you will find ways to work on this together.

If nothing gives see a therapist who could help you out. Just remember that she's 4, probably terrified and ashamed and she needs love, support and ofcourse boundaries. But no punishment for things she can not control.

I think you've got an over stimulated, over tired confused little girl.

Stop the overnight stays by dad. He gets to put her to sleep when she's at his. All it's saying to her is "dad sometimes lives with us, sometimes doesn't" and it's confusing, especially if it happens randomly and not on set nights.

Give her a natural and actual consequence for hitting. Not just being shoved away and forced to apologise.

Imagine you're so tired, most and confused you reach breaking point and throw something in anger and the person you love the most in the entire world, the person you seek for comfort and reassurance... Pushes you away and shuts the door and then makes you apologise... And then repeats the cycle.... Would it help you?

aside from your daughters angry outbursts, how else did she present?

My 6yo DD is exactly the same with the anger and demand avoidance. We tread on eggshells around her all day.

She’s perfect in school. No issues at all. I’ve have several meetings with them and feel stupid because they don’t see anything wrong.

At home she’s a perfectionist. If she’s drawing and a line feels off she will scream, tear the paper, throw the pens and storm off. She hates any kind of competition - riding her scooter with siblings, building Lego etc. Throws the scooter and storms off in the middle of the street if she perceives the sibling doing better than her or goes in front of her. Will lose the plot if she’s building Lego next to a sibling doing the same. (Different sets) but goes mental if sibling is a page further than her.

She wants all the attention and loves being the best at things. Low attention span for sit down activities.

She’s a sensory seeker - rocks back and forth on the sofa and headbangs to fall asleep.

Edited to add: she has always had the same morning and bedtime routine but she fights it tooth and nail at every step.

Anyway, GP referred to paediatrician because I couldn’t cope with her meltdowns any longer. Long story short - she doesn’t think autism because she was communicating well and playing with her twin during the appointment. But completely shut down the idea that it might be ADHD.

Shes been referred to the ND team just in case she’s really good at masking.

Fucking hell.

Maybe I shall smack your backside for that comment and see if it is a suitable response to your shitty comment...

I just saying, we had nothing.

Why is he coming to your house to put her to bed and staying over?

Surely that's just confusing to her?

You say he doesn't live there.... Yet he does to her little eyes...

This is a 4 year old, at the end of the longest hardest term, all the Christmas excitement, all the lack/change of routine, the over tiredness all has an impact...
So if on top of that dad suddenly left 3 weeks ago because mummy and daddy were shouting lots.... Or was it a long time ago and all amicable...or is it a temporary thing? ...

Knowing the context if him."not living with you" might help explain a fair bit.