To be fed up of the constant bashing of the UK?

Sounds nice. But not all UK places are like that. Many deprived city centres for a start can only dream of that

That’s far too logical for many to actually get , ! The only thing I disagree on is about minimum wage, it’s not much higher elsewhere even in very high tax country’s - the bigger issue is ‘costs’ -particularly utilities, transport and top of the pile is housing - particularly in southern half of England or more desirable areas in midlands and north

Perhaps some of the UK-bashing is down to the elements that UK people voted for - there have been some bad policy choices.

Though I don't think people voted for weak regulation of utilities, or train companies being run as subsidy farms (I'm amazed when I go to London how empty the trains are - there must be some way to make better use of the capacity while protecting revenues).

Road pricing would be a good start. I live close to a city centre but it regularly takes 45 minutes to get in, whichever mode I use.

The problem is that when we go on holiday we are in a good mood, have money to spend and generally choose a nice place to visit, where we live is generally by accident of birth, due to career or down to what we can afford. We like to road trip and consequently often stay in more unusual places for tourists, you see the other side of countries and as my French friends always remind me, the grass isn’t always greener. Think of having to travel 400km to access medical treatment because the specialist is in Paris or even you can’t access it because you don’t live in Paris??? Different country same problem, all the resources are in the capital they reckon. Also they complain about dirty streets, pot holes, drunks, drug users … sounds familiar!

Of course Switzerland is doing well, 90% of its utilities are owned by the Public Sector, with only 2% owned by foreign investors.

Whilst in the Uk about 75% of our utlities are owned by foreign investors, the profits from
these, instead of staying in the country, go abroad to fund the pension schemes of other counties.

The privatisation of North Sea Oil alone, lost us about £500bn in revenue .. Norway kept their oil, set up a wealth fund, and have a much better standard of living.

This whole problem goes back to the 80s Privatisation mantra of Thatcher. Our Public Transport is dirty and expensive, because it’s run for profit not public good.

Brexit has not helped, we are no longer a stable economy to invest in.

Also the ageing population needs more from Public Services, which of course is more expensive.

We let employers pay people less than a living wage (keeping their profits in tact), so we have to top it up from tax .. it’s a disgrace. Try to put that cost back to businesses, and they are up in arms, as they are too used to thier fat wallets.

It can’t be solved in one Parliament.. it took 40 years to get here, and will take 40 years to get us out.

No other mature economy would tolerate the systems we currently have in place … we have homelessness, whilst vast swathes of property are bought up by foreign investors, and either stand empty, or charge an extortionate rent.

….and when Farage and the rest make promises about reducing the size of the public sector, what they actually mean is more private provision (that got iIs in this mess in the first place)

This. There’s been a very rapid decline in living standards in the UK and it’s very noticeable. Life is worse, much harder and much more expensive for lower living standards, and still on the slide, rather than there being any plan to regenerate.

Being in Switzerland is going to throw that into sharp contrast. I can see how it’s wearing to hear about it constantly when you’re just trying to enjoy your holiday, though.

I agree with you re the state of the economy, but not re the sneering. Firstly, what absolute arseholes would sneer at the citizens of an economy in trouble? Would you dream of sneering at people in the slums of India or desolate cities of America? That’s just awful hateful behavior isn’t it?

secondly I can apply your list to so many countries- maybe not exactly, we all have our unlike challenges- but I spent Xmas in Ireland with family from there, Spain, USA and Canada and I can promise you they all have serious issues related to the basic infrastructure you have described above. Things like teacher shortages and high housing costs are pretty universal tbh.

This isn’t true across those countries though, I imagine? I’m just back from Normandy which outside of small traditional (tourist) towns is industrial, empty and full of lidls.

i spent the summer in Portugal in what turned out to be the least characterful beach resort with awful food in the restaurants and shops that resembled a uk 24 hour “food and wine” store.

we like to have this image but how much of it is relevant now? Globalisation has hit all of Europe, and whilst many towns have certainly retained their charm and character, just as many never had any.

The economy has not been getting more efficient for decades now, in fact worse - so there is just no money for the things we need.

It isn't great here - and the differences are getting visible.

Britain is genuinely in a hole - Andrew Sissons and John Springfield have written a brilliant essay on this, and what we need to do to climb out: Getting Britain out of the hole – A plan for the UK economy

@DrindI agree but in general what we get and what’s available to the average person here is lower quality. I go to Spain, France and Italy and there are markets full of fresh produce. The equivalent where I live here is only available from a twice a month farmer’s market at very high prices certainly not for the average weekly family shop. It is just hard to live and eat well in this country on an average income.

By your own admission you were lying about where you are.

I think life in the UK is a pretty hard grind for a lot of people, for all sorts of reasons. Here are a few:
Almost totally dysfunctional NHS
Education system underfunded and teacher shortages
Housing, too much reliance on private rentals, high rents make it impossible to save, ridiculously high prices of houses almost everywhere relative to salaries
Lack of jobs and lowish salaries for many young people. Apprenticeship system is partly dysfunctional
Shambolic and expensive public transport, lack of EV infrastructure
I am not surprised at people sneering at the UK, it is well deserved
Even as a lifelong Labour voter I despair of our government's apparent inability to improve just about anything

There are issues in every country, some are just the same as the UK. What is evident is the quality of life and the environment in many parts of Europe is different from the UK. The gap seems to be widening more and more as the cost of living here has spiralled, even those with higher incomes are being squeezed. What I notice most is the quality and availability of good food. We now have supermarkets with cabinets full of expensive processed foods, no fresh produce counters and a society that is time poor and unhealthy. I see that we are becoming more like the USA in this sense where only the wealthy can afford to cook and eat well and it makes me so angry.

Why is asking two perfectly reasonable questions is trying to be a dick?

I was wrong about the midlands and didn't think of the Lincolnshire coast, but if you're going to say things like Switzerland is southern Europe then you have to expect questions. No need to be so rude.

I see both sides of this- I live in a very nice suburb semi rural that is quiet but my nearest city and other suburbs are some of the most deprived in the UK - this is also where I work. Things have got worse in the past 5 years - housing and access to healthcare/dental.

Maybe the people are constantly using humour to explain the comparative differences to sort of inversely make themselves feel better about where they live? To try and make sense somehow of such differences. It also sounds like they point out the bleeding obvious rather than silently acknowledge it and move above it to another topic - it does sound wearing

This 💯

Yeah but show them up as the thicker lower classes and that will shock them back into their senses

use their snobbery against them

How can “most of the UK” be “dirty”???

Less than 10% of it is built on!

Tell them you think they’ve been reading too much Daily Mail or watching too much GB News.

Am fairly sure we were told Brexit would result in lower living standards. Loss of money. Loss of prestige on the international stage. How long ago was that again?

@LupinLou I don’t personally prefer the uk day to day having lived in Copenhagen , but there are certainly bits about both I prefer - and jets face it , this really depends where you live in the UK or in Denmark - we certainly went through plenty of rural deadly dull and not scenically interesting bits of Denmark that i wouldn’t choose in a month of Sundays - just as there are big swathes off UK I feel same about - if it came down to living in the posher leafier bits of London or Copenhagen - it would be a much closer choice for me.

I live in Switzerland and its does make the UK look like a complete sh**hole. Lived in Wales for 20 years, spent a few years in Bristol/Bath then 10 years in London, now 6 years in Switzerland. I have seen the rapid decline in the UK and its hard not to compare and yes I do visit London/Wales 2/3 times a month for work/family. But if you haven't lived somewhere better then you don't know any different. I find it so frustrating when people defend the UK/NHS etc when they don't know any different because they haven't lived anywhere else. If I'd never left I'd probably be exactly the same.
But here is my experience -

• I earn 2.5 times more vs when I lived in London
• I pay less tax
• Better pension
• Better social care - there is contingency for when things go wrong. You pay equivalent of national insurance & accident/sickness insurance. As long as you have been working for 2 years or more, if you lose your job for any reason you can claim unemployment benefit up to 80% of your salary capped at 10k per month for 2 years. There's no stigma to it either. If you're sick, your insurance ensures you can afford to live whilst you get better.
• you pay mandatory health insurance but the service you receive is incredible. Longest wait I've had in A&E has been 1.5 hours.
• for the tax you do pay you reap the benefits of how it is spent

-everything works - public transport, infrastructure, education - its progressive and it feels like everything is constantly being improved

• culturally Swiss come across as conformist and conservative, rule abiding - i don't see litter or littering, or antisocial behaviour - it is not how they behave.
• it's safe- i have never felt unsafe at any time of day where I live
• I don't see any crime
• public education is very good - small class sizes too avg 16 kids per class

-its clean
-healthcare is amazing and I have had consultants horrified by the care that I have received from the NHS. I have had an undiagnosed long term autoimmune disease picked up here that was not discovered by the NHS. I dont wait for any referral and even have had some appointments on the same day as being given the referral. My son had a 4 month wait for an ASD test and since his diagnosis he has had a child psychologist who we see once a fortnight and an occupational therapist we see once a week.
I could go on but I won't.

Conversely when I come to London/Wales now there are inevitably things I miss - pubs, Sunday lunch, newspaper, the friendly faces in Wales, sense of humour, familiarity. But that's about it. Often I feel embarrassed and hororfed about the state of the UK -
I've had relatives call an ambulance after a stroke and been told its a 12 hour wait, my 75yo mum post cancer surgery had to got to a&e with an infection and was left in a chair for 36 hours........I cannot fathom how anyone can defend the NHS because this is not normal and should not be considered acceptable. It takes me less time to fly from Switzerland to London, than it does to go from Gatwick to central London because the trains are always delayed. Nothing works. It's filthy. Every time I take my son to the local park in Wales he asks me why the playground is broken, why there is rubbish everywhere because he's not used to seeing it. There is 0 level of customer service in the UK........how has it become normal for sales assistants and customer service reps to effing and blinding to customers.....my experience. It's as if people don't care, there's no pride in the country they live or the job that they do and it's a very sad state of affairs.