Horror at sons "special" christmas present?

Not the only thing they didn’t give a second thought to was it ? Still at uni, nowhere to live, no income, from different countries, and clearly wanting to pass off the responsibility for housing them after the baby is born, to OP. I doubt whether her age at becoming a grandma is the main concern here.

Was OK for you to have a kid at 18 though? If you didn't want to be a grandma at 38 should have waited to have kids. I presume they didn't give a 2nd thought to the age you'd be!

Just out of interest, does it deter any of the more invested posters that the OP hasn't been back for 48 hours?

I doubt she said that when sitting around the table and talking about how 'I'm going to love being a gma one day.' I'm sure she didn't see this circumstance at all but it would be unnatural to sit down and say, "I'm going to love being a gma one day but not at 38." That would be weird. If the son is a bit thick, he may have thought OP's generic looking forward to being a gma covered all situations.

She said in her first post I've always wanted to be a grandmother but not at 38.

We’re talking at cross purposes. I’m not talking about her leaving while pregnant. That’s an entirely different scenario than after the child is born.

No, it's not. It sounds like this is an early pregnancy. In the mother's place, I'd be getting back to South Korea pronto, even if I had to give up my studies, if that's where I wanted to raise this child.

When she's talked about looking forward to being a grandmother one day (if she did), I doubt she was that specific. I have sons in their 20s and I'd have been blindsided if OP's situation, and I'm plenty old enough to be a grandmother at 52.

She specifically said she didn’t want to be a grandmother at 38.

It’s not the habitual residence of the mother - it’s that of the child themselves.I’m trying to find a thread from a while back on the legal board - if l can find it I’ll post a link. More or less the same situation with a young mother from the UK studying in Australia who had given birth there. The father was Australian -again, both countries signatories to Hague. The conclusion from a couple of family lawyers advising was that it was likely she could not remove the child to the UK at the end of her studies without the fathers’ permission because the courts would likely deem Australia to be the childs’ habitual residence. It’s by no means straightforward

She didn't. She said she didn't want to be a gran at 38

Either that or he misguidedly thought OP would be thrilled. Maybe she's talked about looking forward to being a gma one day?

So then, what is the habitual residence of a mother on a short term visa? Surely it would be their country of origin rather than the UK. They are a visitor rather than habitual resident, just while studying. An unborn baby's habitual residence has to be with the mother.

There was a thread on the legal board a couple of months ago from a UK woman studying in Australia, who was in exactly the same situation. Both the UK and Australia are signatories to Hague and although she was required to leave at the end of her studies, she could not take the child without the fathers’ permission, as the courts had ruled that the child’s habitual residence was in Australia. If l can find it, I’ll link to it.

The son has every intention that the child will be born in this country and hopes it will reside with his mother.

I strongly suspect that the girlfriend wants the same and for a lovely cosy granny/mother/father/baby co-residence to create a human rights section 8 right to a family life as quickly as possibly.

I believe on the information we've been given that if that child is born in this country the mother will apply for indefinte leave to remain.

The OP did not say at any point when her degree was finishing. Just that she's doing a post grad - it's very likely that she'll be finished in May or June and will have to go home at that point

It depends on whether or not the baby has been born. She may have to leave, but whether she can remove the child without the fathers’ permission depends on several factors.

You're wrong. All other information online re this situation suggests otherwise. Particularly as she's on a student visa that is going to run out very soon.

Yes it does, because it’s absolutely relevant to the situation, and yet many posters seem unaware of it. Both countries are signatories to the agreement so neither parent has the right to remove the child without the permission of the other, regardless of where the child is born, and the overriding factor is habitual residence. Yes, of course she could just go home and have the baby, but OP indicated that her course doesn’t finish until after the baby is born, so it’s unlikely.

I said this ages ago and was told I was wrong

The difficulty re the position of the girlfriend is that, for students with the scholarship it's likely to be, an immediate return to their home countries once their courses are complete is built in to the funding package.

I can't see how she can override that, I think she will have to return to South Korea in the late summer and then apply to the UK for permission to return.

They may marry at some point but I still think that she will be expected to leave the UK in late summer/early autumn and then re-apply on the basis of her new circumstances.

Does this need to be said 100 times. The child hasn't even been born yet. The mother could go home and have the child

And The Hague convention deems that rather than where the baby is born, what matters is the place of habitual residence. So whether the baby is born in the UK or S Korea is not as important as where the child is deemed by the courts to be living. Both the UK and S Korea are signatories to the convention so neither parent can remove the child to their home country without the permission of the other.

Why else would he force OP to open the ‘gift’ in front of everyone else and then suggest in front of others that all three live with OP after the baby is born ? Hee’s controlling OP’s response and making it difficult for her to refuse. It’s clearly manipulative.

FlyingCatGirl

"The legal issue of the girlfriend being here only on a study visa eradicates any positives! Right now there are no positives! It's two students wrecking their lives and studies for a baby they can't pay for or currently raise together because she can't stay here. And it's a relationship still in its infancy so not exactly stable or solid."

Of course it is not stable or solid, but as I said, I think here are positives. I know a family who started in very similar (almost identical) situation 30 years ago. They decided to get married and had a happy time. The marriage lasted many years. It's not easy or safe but then this is a not a situation that the OP or anyone is choosing. This is the situation as it is.