To have not lied to DS about trans actor in Last Christmas?

Great. Do you can use the unisex toilets with the males, and the women can use the female toilets. Awesome. All sorted. So males and those women who don’t mind mixed sex toilets can use those. Women and men who need and deserve single sex facilities get those.

For a tiny number. For most, like Rebecca, it’s pretty obvious.

But it’s not clear at all.

Its really quite revealing that you chose not to answer the question as asked @GoodQueenWenceslaus.Are you ok with sharing non cubicle in basin female toilets with men who don’t claim to be women? Most women and girls would not be. Just like they also aren’t ok with most men who identify as women (who are obviously men) there.

I think the reality is that we've all at some time been in a female toilet with a trans woman and not noticed, because we've generally got better things to do than scrutinise everyone else in there.

I've been in unisex toilets where the basins are in the cubicles. It didn't bother me at all, nor indeed did it bother any of the other women using them.

Women can look/present however they want. A man in a frock is clearly a man in a frock.

Right backatcha 🙄

Well it's true, isn't it? What do you think 'living as a woman' means?

What are you talking about? Women don't need to look ultra feminine. They just need to be female.

🙄

You really cant tell though. I know women who look like that. Just offensive that women have to look altra feminine now.

Rebecca has never lived as a woman, because it’s literally impossible for Rebecca to do so.

Holy shit, it’s literally stated in his IMDb bio!!

Ive just watched this ARE YOU SURE IT’s a man? Definitely feel like it could be a woman and this post is extremely offensive.

People need to wake up to the fact that there is no 'moderate' position here. Either you let men into women's spaces or you don't. There's no in between.

What you've suggested here about letting men in who have had surgery is completely unworkable. How do you oversee that? I'm also not sure of the logic of it. Men who've had surgery are still men. Removing a penis doesn't make them a women.

Why did I Google? I was curious, I spend most of my time when watching something looking through all the actors on IMDB 🤷‍♀️

I'm sorry but this is a nonsense. How would this work in practice? Men who have chopped their penises off can come into women's single sex spaces but men who haven't can't.

How do we know what men have chopped their penises off?

How do we stop men who haven't chopped their penises off but say they have out?

Do we allow men who have lost their penises through illness or accidents in? If not why?

I appreciate you're trying to find a middle ground but you either let men into women's spaces or you don't. If you let one man in you need to let them all in. And the only men who enter are predators as the good men know to stay out.

But how do you know the male you’re allowing into the female spaces has a “cavity”? Are you relying on all males telling the truth?

It’s the transactivists that are obsessed with genitals, not the gender critical people. I don’t know whether a man has cut off his genitals and replaced them with a cavity. I don’t want to know. I don’t want to look. And it does not matter one iota, either.

A man looks like a man, sounds like a man, moves like a man, smells like a man. He can disguise himself but he remains a man. That’s the issue. Not what body mods he has had done.

A man who insists on colonising women’s spaces behaves like an entitled, domineering, aggressive man, no matter how disguised he is, no matter how soft-spoken he is.

But that's just a man who has chopped his penis. Off.

The simple answer is to coin new language to allow the men-who-don't-feel-like-men and the women-who-feel-they-have-something-significant-in-common-with-the-men-who-don-t-feel-like-men to name themselves and be recognised as a meaningful group without taking away the existing language that refers to women as a meaningful group based on our common physical sex.

The reason this will never be acceptabled to the men-who-don't-feel-like-men is because actually, this is not, despite all their language of I-just-want-to-be-myself, about their identity at all. It is about the forceable appropriation of our identity - of female identity, language and resources. They demand the right to redefine us and what is and is not significant to our lives and experiences so that they can define themselves as the same as us, and also demand that we may not have the symetrical right to define ourselves as different to them no matter how significant those differences may be to us, because they weigh their own judgement of us as more truthful than our own.

They need us to continue wommaning along as we always did because it it specifically that - the external target of our identities and our lives that they do not experience in their own right - that they want, and nothing to do with their own inner self knowledge and experiences at all.

And once you realise that, you realise that far from being "anti-trans position on the little issues", holding the line on female language and female existence being significant in its own right is the very heart of this. If we do not accept that, that female people do exist as separate from male, we cannot defend anything that is built upon it.

All the "compromises" ultimately boil down to some level of acceptance that some men, in some circumstances, are more like women than they are men. and no, I simply do not accept that, because to do so is to reduce womanhood and the diveristy of women into something lesser and stereotyped, into something that men project onto us not something that is innate within us.

The true compromises, the true half ways, are (1) new language, and (2) new intra-sex or mixed-sex social identities.

Anything that requires women define ourselves as less than we are, or rewrites our lives and experiences to downplay the impact our sex has, in order to accomodate trans identifying men is not a compromise, it's a subjection.

You see, I don't have any problem with someone like that being in a female changing room. I think even fairly hardline Moslems would be OK with women being in a changing room with someone with a cavity instead of genitalia.

If I knew them personally I'd probably be quite happy to call them she if that's what they want. But I could never call them a woman, because they aren't, they're a man who physically resembles a woman.

And I absolutely don't agree with anyone who went through a male puberty competing either physically or mentally against women, for sports, awards, or women only jobs.

I understand the problem that some people have with feeling that they are being asked to lie by using "she". I suggested on another thread that "they" was a good compromise and got ritually slaughtered for it.

I don't know how that can be got round, because it isn't going to go away, and refusing to moderate an anti-trans position on the little issues is not helping the cause of women.

It's odd how clearly you want to minimise this redefinition of womanhood.

The reason why "we can always tell" has becone significant is that far too many people seem to believe that if a woman can be deceived by a man playacting womanhood then she has no right to complain it happened because "it doesn't affect you".

It is bizarre, but there you go. Misogyny and the assumption that women's self determination must be secondary to men's requirements of us run very deep in our society.

Rebecca performed his interpretation of womanhood for two years, had emasculation surgery and an artificial cavity formed, that he has to regularly dilate to prevent it healing over, and had part of vocal chords removed. Old school transexual in other words. He remains male. He may have legally falsified documentation claiming that he is a woman. He remains a man according to the Equality Act. He has no absolute right to access women's spaces, women's services or women's positions.

So you’re ok with non cis men being in female toilets. Grand. Are you also ok with cis men bing in female toilets? If not,why not?