To have not lied to DS about trans actor in Last Christmas?

Have you heard of SET, FIXED skeletal structure? That, is NOT on a 'bell curve'.

And then there's the adams apple 🍏

Yes, they were.

What is transphobia in your definition? If its refusing to teach children that a man can change into a woman then i'm hella transphobe - as is most.

Have you heard of a bell curve?

Quite. They were not changed with being a man in a ladies loo.

FFS. AGAIN with the 'feminine'. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH FEMININE LOOKS.

It's about the SKELETAL STRUCTURE. I don't know how many times it has to be explained to you. You clearly are not 'getting it'. It has nothing whatsoever to do with pretty looks or feminine looks.

Voyeurism or indecent exposure are specific offences or they could be charged with a public order offence as a catchall i.e. behaviour likely to occasion a breach of the peace.

It is. And it was. And they were. They were charged with voyeurism or indecent exposure.

Charge them with what? It is not a criminal offence to be a male in a ladies loo, so they weren't charged with that. It's not "according to me", it's according to the law.

The customer service people are face to face with me. Not only are you fooling yourself that you can reliably tell a man at the feminine end of the bell curve from a woman at the masculine end of the bell curve, you are being devastatingly demeaning to women who don't fit a standard feminine model and applying exactly the same argument as the trans lobby who say they know what it is to be a woman. Why can't you see that?

So police used to be called when men were in the ladies, and the police would take them away and often charge them. But according to you, it is not a criminal offence. Sure...

One thing I do know; us women are working on getting this criminal offence set in stone and able to be prosecuted.

Again, you are talking about 'masculine' and 'feminine' looks. It's not about if you look pretty and girly. Male skeletal structure is fixed. It is not on a 'bell curve'.

It is harder when it's women, but as soon as you turn around and/or speak, it would become obvious.

It is not a criminal offence to use the "wrong" toilet, it would be a civil dispute only unless there was a fight over it. Inconsiderate they might be, criminals not.

The law has given us the right to challenge obviously male people in a women only toilet. It gives us the same right not to be raped. But you can't control everyone's behaviour, never have been able to, and never will be able to.

What the law doesn't say, which a lot of people seem to think it does, is that women only spaces have to be provided. The hotel I'm currently in has a sign on the public ladies "Ladies, Dames and Queens", and that's perfectly legal.

So you’re saying even though the law says people with a trans identity just use the facilities relating to their sex, and it’s widely known them using the facilities not related to their sex may cause harm and distress, non cis people will do it anyway? So you’re saying most non cis people are inconsiderate criminals? Wow! Pretty transphobic there buddy

Me too. Happens all the time to me.

The stuff you are quoting, height, shoulders, voice etc is all on a bell curve, and the most masculine-end women will look more male than the most feminine-end man.

I didn't answer a question above because it always comes down to an argument "we can always tell every single male" and not only is it not true it's incredibly insulting to women who don't fit into a standard model of femininity.

I don't get how other women can't see how that by insisting they can always differentiate physical male appearance from physical female appearance, they are demeaning women who do not fit a standard female appearance in exactly the same way that the trans lobby are.

But you only know if you identify them as a man. You have no way of knowing how many times you have shared a space wirh a trans man (or a trans woman) and not known.

If it’s really so difficult to tell men from women, then it’s even more important for men to take responsibility for their actions and stay out of women’s spaces.

Can I ask you how come, if you are so sure that you can tell, that all my life I have been occasions challenged for being on the wrong toilets and frequently called sir or mate by customer service people?

I find it truly strange that civilisation has flourished and grown over millennia, all the way up to the 1990s and beyond 2010. We've had single sex facilities, female and male spaces, things like mens clubs, The Mens Shed, single sex schools, and have grouped society around the two sexes. Now, all of a sudden, some people have, in the space of less than one generation, managed to BRAINWASH others to believe we somehow, now, can't tell a man from a woman.

I mean, how did that happen? And how did people fall for such demonstrable nonsense? Where is there self respect?

Have people completely lost their senses and brains? Or is worshipping the patriarchy that important?

It is as long as you have two eyeballs in your head. If you can't tell the difference between a man and a woman, you have something wrong with you.

That is simply not reality. It really is an insane fantasy. Putting aside the fact that you are suggesting that males breaching the rules are so commonplace, you are suggesting we don't have eyeballs in our head. We can tell a male at a sidewards glance. We don't 'need' to scrutinise them. They don't pass, they really don't. They stand out like a sore thumb. You're fooling yourself if you think they do.

Unless you are completely blind, you CAN tell, and very very easily. It's not about 'feminine' or 'masculine' looks. It's about the SKELETAL STRUCTURE. Male height, male square jaw bone, limb length, gait, hand and feet size, lack of hips, broad square shoulders, adams apple, etc etc. It is so soooo easy to tell. It's actually very offensive of you to say we can't.