To have not lied to DS about trans actor in Last Christmas?

I’ve known plenty of bio women who don’t have hips, are column shaped and just go straight up and down. That one really isn’t a reliable indicator that someone is male.

The OP said that the man was identifying as a sex they were not….thats it

and its true 🤷🏻

It was stated as a biological fact that things don’t change sex. I was just pointing out that this isn’t correct, as the poster had instructed their child that way!

To suggest that person didn't pass in that situation would be ridiculous

i know you aren’t talking about anyone in particular with this but i am saying that i believe there are some people out there who would be able to tell even if the vast majority of us couldn’t

(and as others have said in certain situations, obviously someones chances of ‘passing’ are higher in a photo)

but again as others have said its got nothing to do with whether males should be in female spaces

The answer to which (assuming you actually meant trans woman not trans person, because plenty of trans people are already women) is No.

Because to do so is to allow the idea that how a man looks or thinks or behaves makes him objectively more like a woman than a man.

And to believe that, society has to endorse the idea that there are ways of looking or thinking or behaving that correctly and specifically belong to "men" or to "women" in the first place.

And that's the sort of social sexism I thought we were all very hapoy to be getting away from.

It certainly does not benefit women - actual women - to redefine us from simply being the female half of humanity with whatever looks and thoughts and personality we happen to have into some concept of an "other" type of mind that only exists because it is projected onto us by men.

and ironically she'd be far more capable of doing you harm than any trans person you're likely to come across)
Capable perhaps, but far less likely to, as she's female and won't have the male pattern of violence.

There is a German woman,Valerie Wilms, with two children who when asked what her genes would show replied that she would be XY.

I think some of them are deluded and really believe it, and all of them are gaslighting when we refuse to bow to their delusions.

Why is it only the male to female that we hear making these outrageous claims? Why don't trans lobbyists understand that they are damaging their cause, not helping it?

I’m afraid this is exactly what a number of TIMs claim, supposedly intelligent and rational ones. Eg barrister Robin Moira-White who claims he is a woman (an actual biological woman) because he is “endocrinally” female.
Or former Master (judge) Victoria McCloud, who as a 57 year old man told Laura Kuenssberg in an interview that he is taking the contraceptive pill and that it stops him becoming pregnant.

You literally could not make this shit up.

Do you think these men are mentally ill and actually believe their own delusions, or that they are trying to force people to validate them, to acquiesce in their own gaslighting?

Despite my less than neutral language it’s a genuine question - what do you think?

Doesn't that take us back to how do we tell the difference?

How do we tell the difference between a biological man with a gender identity and a biological man without a gender identity?

Also @Kimura how about you address your complaints to the people who brought up “sex changing animals”, rather than the people pointing out what bollocks it is as a justification of why some men should be treated as women?

lol, no, im sure you are aware that most people will agree with the fact that men shouldn’t be treated as women just because they say so. Which is what you are implying.

Why would we need to treat a man as a woman? What can a man do when he claims he’s a woman that he can’t do if he claims he’s a man? What does treat in a man as a woman look like? Accessing female spaces? Why? He’s not a woman?

Also, the fact that “sex changing animals” are being brought up does suggest that people think it’s the same kind of thing as men “changing” into women.

I don't think anyone - in good faith - believe's that they're the same kind of thing. I think anyone bringing that up is trying to be facetious, looking to get a reaction or extremely dim.

There is zero reason to “treat them as women, legally and socially” even though they really really want it.

Many will agree, many will disagree, and that's why it's an ongoing issue that will likely take a long time to be fully hashed out, if it ever is.

Also, the fact that “sex changing animals” are being brought up does suggest that people think it’s the same kind of thing as men “changing” into women. Men are not women, it’s not possible. There is zero reason to “treat them as women, legally and socially” even though they really really want it.

You mean a male trans person, right?

I really don't like this characterisation of the issue. No reasonable, nominally intelligent person believes or has suggested that a biological man can 'turn into' a biological woman. The issue is whether we as a society should treat a trans person as a woman, socially and legally.

Google Gabi Garcia. She's a female combat sports athlete. She's 6'2, weighs over 200lbs (nearly 15 stone). All muscle. Massive hands, square jaw, broad shoulders. Deep voice. I guarantee that if you saw her walk into a bathroom you'd assume she was trans (and ironically she'd be far more capable of doing you harm than any trans person you're likely to come across).

This 'I can tell' thing is such an odd and petty subsection of this debate, when there are far more important things going on. Yet it's brought up every time, without fail.

It's actually very offensive of you to say we can't.

How on earth is it offensive? Firstly, nobody is saying you 'can't'. People are saying that you can't always. And they're right. Just because you can identify many/most trans people, doesn't mean there aren't people out there who can't 'pass' in certain situations.

I've only interacted with - to my knowledge - two trans people. One - an old friend - is very obviously trans. Another I met at an event. The organiser had told us beforehand that an old friend of his we'd never met was bringing their trans partner. Our social group has an 'anything goes' sense of humor and he didn't want anyone getting upset.

I feel embarrassed to say it, but it was a large event and many of us spent the evening 'trans spotting', as we tried to figure out who it was. Late in the evening, a group of about 20 people were socializing outside and somebody blurted it out, at which point a person we'd all been stood talking to for about an hour out their hand up and said "Oh, that's me."

To suggest that person didn't pass in that situation would be ridiculous.

Have we really circled back to 'clownfish can change sex so therefore a human male can turn into a female' nonsense?

Were any mammals on that list? No thete weren't, because mammals can't change sex.

Exactly the opposite, in fact.

Humans aren’t one of those animals.

You must have missed articles like the BBC magazine one recently that was about ‘10 Animals that can change sex’ - those are biological facts too!

I haven't come across any either. I posted up thread that there are lots of biological men who identify as not men in the public eye and they are all clearly male. I also said that the men who have had multiple surgeries (feminising?) still look like men just very weird looking men (Munroe Bergdorf).

Exactly.

No she isn’t, because TRAs say being a woman is about feeling and identity and nothing to do with those things.