To feel like I don’t like men anymore

Men fully grasp the amount of work kids bring. That's one of many reasons men are pretty resistant to have kids. It's definately women who play down the drawbacks of children.... Until 30 seconds after the second one is born.

And in my circle of friends there's is never a calm discussing about going PT. It's either delived as a fait accomplis (typical) or a ton of emotional blackmail is employed. I can't think of a single male acquaintance who wants his wife to be PT no sane person would want to live on a fraction of the normal double income. Again, if women calmly and dispassionately brought all this up pre-conception most blokes would say "Actually I don't want children that badly, let's just keep going with the expensive holidays and the terrific hobbies.".

TBH that's why I think it's quite healthy that women are so open about their dislike of men. It's much easier to avoid commitment if you can point to threads like this. Very hard for one woman to claim she will enjoy being committed for life when all the others are saying they go off men when they mature and realize how awful men are. Ditto the Ick. 20 years ago very few men realized women randomly went off sex with their husbands. (Perhaps it was joked about in changing rooms and male spaces but seeing it spelled out from the horses mouth is far more helpful.)

I work in 'a man's job' (construction) and have done for almost a decade. It's a lifestyle the vast majority of women don't have a clue about. When they talk about men it always seems to be the executive type. We hear about the lack of female CEOs, never about the lack of female refuse collectors. And after working for Biffa for almost four years I can assure you that I never met a single female refuse collector or another woman that could drive a truck. There were plenty in the office though.

Now many of my friends are having kids and going down to part time work and it's clear many have no intention of ever resuming their career with the same intensity they had in their mid 20s. It's not all roses and many find motherhood a shock, but the men aren't living some blessed existence either. Certainly the men alongside me working 12-13 hour shifts in the rain when things go wrong on HS2 aren't living some cushy existence.

They graft in a way I've not seen many women graft, and they mostly don't whinge about it either. They work hard to earn good money because it's never crossed their mind that they could just marry a high earner and go permanently part time while still enjoying an excellent quality of life.

I'm not 'rooting for men'. There are plenty of issues with them too, but it always seems to be women that play the victim. Especially educated middle class women who have the luxury of doing so. Men just realise that they need to get on with it and they mostly do. And if conscription ever comes in it'll be them stepping up again. From recent threads it's pretty clear that a lot of women will suddenly play the helpless card if the shit hits the fan.

Men fully grasp the amount of work kids bring. That's one of many reasons men are pretty resistant to have kids. It's definately women who play down the drawbacks of children.... Until 30 seconds after the second one is born.

And in my circle of friends there's is never a calm discussing about going PT. It's either delived as a fait accomplis (typical) or a ton of emotional blackmail is employed. I can't think of a single male acquaintance who wants his wife to be PT no sane person would want to live on a fraction of the normal double income. Again, if women calmly and dispassionately brought all this up pre-conception most blokes would say "Actually I don't want children that badly, let's just keep going with the expensive holidays and the terrific hobbies.".

TBH that's why I think it's quite healthy that women are so open about their dislike of men. It's much easier to avoid commitment if you can point to threads like this. Very hard for one woman to claim she will enjoy being committed for life when all the others are saying they go off men when they mature and realize how awful men are. Ditto the Ick. 20 years ago very few men realized women randomly went off sex with their husbands. (Perhaps it was joked about in changing rooms and male spaces but seeing it spelled out from the horses mouth is far more helpful.)

Women go PT as agreed among a couple.

Much as you believe most women have male partners who will agree to change their work style to commit to fully 50% of childcare and 50% of domestic labour most will not.

Hence why in families with young children the couple will almost agree that one party needs to step back.
Especially in families without money or desire for Nannies (not everybody wants strangers looking after their kids.)

You seem unable to grasp the extra work kids bring probably because it is primarily done by women

But the women who harp on about how 'men hate us' whilst simultaneously saying they have a blanket dislike of men are kinda hypocritical. It seems to me that they just have a certain level of self righteousness whereby they believe that their feelings are justified but the men that feel the same way are simply misogynists.

It's because they genuinely believe the simplistic theories they read about the patriarchy etc and don't understand that real life is much more nuanced. It's easy nowadays to surround yourself with people that have the same selective outlook and it's clear that many think they speak for women in general when reality the vast majority of women in this country reject modern feminism. There are lots of studies that evidence this.

Definitely, absolutely, 100% voluntary. Gotcha. 😂

But joking aside I do suspect that with at least some of these women that hate men so much it's just bitter grapes. Like the blokes that see a guy revving a lambo down the street and are like "nah, I wouldn't want to be a poser like that". They somehow never get triggered by a ford mondeo tho. It's a definite case of they doth protest too much IMO.

So, when you see all these women so vehemently claiming they don't want a man you do sometimes wonder if it's just a coping mechanism. Obviously NACWALT (Not All Celibate Women Are Like That) but I think some probs are. It's why you hear them banging on about handmaids and how women become invisible at a certain age. It's like a coping mechanism to remind themselves that one day the attractive women won't have the social status they command right now.

I'm a bit tipsy atm so should probs try and avoid getting told off by the mods or causing anyone to have a mardy, but when you see some of these women in real life it kinda all makes sense. When I was studying there were some women from the gender studies class in one of my modules. Some were normal (at least in appearance) but there were more than the fair share of blue haired ogres with loads of piercings etc. Some of them seemed really aggro, especially when a bloke dared speak up, and you'd defo not want to play patriarchy chicken with most of them without the benefit of proper riot gear.

It's just a chicken and egg question of whether they ended up as radicalised feminists because of how they looked or whether they looked that way post feminism due to rejecting standard beauty ideals. Either way, they didn't seem like very much fun. Frowning is meant to burn more calories than smiling so it was odd how they were all so far from size zero lol.

Yeah, but my point is that nobody's trying to 'navigate the data' when they talk about men committing the majority of violent crime. It's just used to moan about them without any thought given to the underlying reasons.

I think a big factor in the problems we see is that women often rely on men whilst men are usually capable of managing on their own when it comes to the crunch.

Ironically, the best solution to this might actually be equality but in a different context to the usual meaning. If women focused on trying to contribute financially as much as possible, pushing their career again once the kids are at school rather than going permanently PT, we'd see less of the power imbalance and less stories about women 'being left penniless after supporting him to maximise his earning potential for years'.

It's the elephant in the room on here but for every tough talking feminist there's at least five women working part time or in a non-career job and relying on their husband as the main earner.

Many of these women could've prioritised their career again once the kids were older but the truth is that many don't want to once the family income is sufficient and they tell themselves it's OK because 'hubby loves his job'.

The reality is that spending your life sitting at a desk isn't actually all that empowering and a lot of women only do it for financial security or to compete with men. Many also find that their priorities change and they become more family focused. That's perfectly understandable and likely partly related to biology but the truth is you can't have your cake and eat it.

It's one thing to moan but how many women would agree to a 50/50 maternity/paternity split and agree to go back to full time work and be 100% focused on maximising their earning potential once the kids are at school? I think it'd be like the recent conscription debates where many women talk the talk but then excuse themselves when the time comes for an equal split.

It’s not “rationalising” it’s statistics 101.

You need to control for all confounding variables. Your data on women having higher rates of abuse without controlling for men being far more absent from women’s lives is an example
of a simplistic way of trying to navigate data.

A whole post to inform me you have nothing to say to me? 🤣

Bit ironic to criticise my critical thinking whilst admitting that you're entirely unaware of any of the studies/data I'm discussing.

You say you wouldn't quote anything without doing thorough research first. Personally, I wouldn't argue with somebody quoting well known facts and data without making a point of doing some research myself. Otherwise you end up sounding a bit like a flat earther lol.

I almost pointed out that somebody will soon be along to give the 'reasons' women abuse more children than men but I thought I'd wait for the inevitable.

It's a well known dynamic that people will often rush to rationalise the actions of women when they're violent. I've thought before now that's it's likely a form of innate sexism whereby we view women as meek and docile and therefore incapable of horrific acts.

I can think of plenty of reasons why women would commit the majority of child abuse. However, nobody is waxing lyrical on the reasons why men commit the majority of violence, despite there being many many studies on the effects of hormones and evolution, so it seemed a bit surplus to requirements.

The reason why posters want to rationalise female violence and condemn male violence is indicative of their own personal bias. It's quite clear when you're a normal person who judges people as individuals rather than based on their race/sex/class etc.

Yes, men murder a lot more women than the reverse, but when you consider that there are 34 million men in this country, 84 committing femicide is a tiny proportion. I don't understand why people on here think it's a gotcha to continually reference stats showing that over 99.9% of men don't murder their partners. It's bizarre!

Same with men though.

They're happy to treat a woman like the Queen of Sheba when she's young and attractive and they're both having fun. However, once they're getting their ear bent daily by a porky middle aged whinger they can't really be arsed to roll out the red carpet anymore.

It works both ways. A lot of men become strategically lazy with age but when you see all the dating profiles of women saying they want to be 'treated like a princess'/require a gentleman etc you do find yourself reflecting that they only get away with it through their youthful good looks. There are so many women that seem to demand a man must be financially secure/own a house/be 'successful' whilst not meeting all these dating requirements themselves.

After a certain point men can't be arsed to dance to this tune.

Yes, I know the quotes. I thought you may have been a MRA. I've not read the whole thread.

They’re both fairly well known quotes. It’s suggesting that it’s pretty much pointless engaging with the couple of obvious MRA’s on this thread. They enjoy it too much so it’s a waste of energy typing thoughtful and measured replies to them.

The tyres part was tongue in cheek as one poster has an obsession with women not being able to change a tyre.

I work in 'a man's job' (construction) and have done for almost a decade. It's a lifestyle the vast majority of women don't have a clue about. When they talk about men it always seems to be the executive type. We hear about the lack of female CEOs, never about the lack of female refuse collectors. And after working for Biffa for almost four years I can assure you that I never met a single female refuse collector or another woman that could drive a truck. There were plenty in the office though.

Now many of my friends are having kids and going down to part time work and it's clear many have no intention of ever resuming their career with the same intensity they had in their mid 20s. It's not all roses and many find motherhood a shock, but the men aren't living some blessed existence either. Certainly the men alongside me working 12-13 hour shifts in the rain when things go wrong on HS2 aren't living some cushy existence.

They graft in a way I've not seen many women graft, and they mostly don't whinge about it either. They work hard to earn good money because it's never crossed their mind that they could just marry a high earner and go permanently part time while still enjoying an excellent quality of life.

I'm not 'rooting for men'. There are plenty of issues with them too, but it always seems to be women that play the victim. Especially educated middle class women who have the luxury of doing so. Men just realise that they need to get on with it and they mostly do. And if conscription ever comes in it'll be them stepping up again. From recent threads it's pretty clear that a lot of women will suddenly play the helpless card if the shit hits the fan.

Not sure whether or not you're a man and that's directed at us women, but that is straight out of Trump's playbook - "Piggie".

Good thing I don't have any tyres that need changing. I have so much more! A super smart brain, a good heart, sexy body, pretty face, a career I am passionate about, children, a peaceful home, warmth and people who I adore and who adore me. 😘

Such predictable answers 😅

These feminist women or women complaining all must be very unattractive or boring nags and are actually desperate for these men, but can’t get them…!
I am attractive and definitely not as you describe (not that it matters either way) and some of my friends are stunning and coming to the same realisation. We also have men and always have, but are now reconsidering.
Saying these women are all fat, ugly and boring and that’s why they have these views is just lazy and immature (hence me asking how old you were) It’s designed to put us back in our boxes and not question things.
Ive seen men with views like yours, who speak like you and i’m sorry but they’re always the quite pathetic ones, the weak men who haven’t had grown up relationships etc-sorry feel a bit mean saying that, but it’s embarrassing.

Is this peri, age or just maturity and seeing the truth? It’s pretty depressing

Never wrestle with a pig and don’t play chess with a pigeon. Life is too short to waste time engaging - after all, there are tyres that need changing!

@Dogsinsantasuits I think it would be refreshing if the men on this thread would showcase their emotional maturity by being open, curious, and non-judgemental. Calling people ugly, dismissing their views because of this presumed ugliness or age, seems a sign of repressed anger or bitterness, which is not reflective of a balanced and controlled personality, or even of someone in control of their lives.

To be fair, there seem to be some mature and balanced people on this thread, and perhaps they are men but do not feel the need to announce their sex. In reverse, the people who I suspect are men based on their rather regressive views and lack of control of anger might be women who like to support men in the hope of a gold sticker from the patriarchy on their cool girl report card? ;-)