Paying the plumber - AIBU?

I am a sole trader, by virtue of the fact that:
There is only me, no one else.
I'm not a Ltd. company
Therefore I'm a sole trader, I, and a lot of others work not only for private customers, but also for SME businesses and larger organisations like the NHS and the local authority.
In terms of vetting for the bigger customers, I have a DBS and have attended various safeguarding training sessions at various establishments so I can work on their sites unsupervised. The rest, insurance etc is the same as for domestic work and comprises public liability and professional liability.
I have never signed a contract with anyone, there is a "bidding" / multiple quote system but that applied to higher value works, not call out maintenance / repair type work. With the NHS I give a quote, if they accept it I do the work and send in an invoice and get paid, almost the same situation as doing a job for Mavis down the road.
For schools / LA I've been doing it so long that I never get asked for a price, I just get called out to do the work and put in my invoice, they have their own account with the wholesalers and builders merchant that I am authorised to order through so I don't supply them any materials, I just order what is need for the job.
Locally there is a half dozen sparks like me, similar number of plumbers, couple of roofers, couple of decorators, a brickie - all similarly operating - we all do domestic too, its Christmas Eve and I'm off to sort out a fault on an old ladies lighting circuit and then to replace a hob.
Neither of those do I expect to pay today, they will get their invoices in due course and have 28 days to settle up.

I've never had to bid for anything, that only applies to contracts over a certain value, and those wouldn't be taken on by a sole trader, be too big by nature.

Nope, I'm a sole trade, and count the NHS as one of my customers, they ring me up and ask me to price a job, and I invoice them in exactly the same way as I do for Mr Jones round the corner - the process is exactly the same. The procurement process is the estates manager calling and asking if I can pop up to the hospital and change a few lights or whatever, its no different from the little restaurant or Joe Public save for having a PO number for the invoice - its only more complex when you get into big bucks contracts.

Yes of course you can be a sole trader who does/has work for small local estate agents/local restaurants/private businesses etc BUT for any public or government body you would have to go through procurement processes which then stipulate how you do business with them including payment terms and conditions.

So you can’t be a sole trader who does work for estate agents or restaurants?!

In order to do work for nhs, government agencies etc. you have to bid for contracts and adhere to their terms and conditions. There are procurement processes. While some sole traders could, possibly, bid for these contracts it would be unusual. L

Of course you can be a sole trader who does jobs for larger companies or organisations. Do you think you’re only a sole trader if you’re repairing Mavis next door’s shed roof?’

Literally one day after the work had been done, as well.

If he was so hard up surely he'd have known that by the Friday? Why didn't he say "I know I usually say pay within 10 days but is there any chance you can pay on completion for this one?" when he first quoted/arranged to do the work, or when he turned up?

As per the traditional MN saying "use your words!"

Saying "ten days is fine" then sending repeated guilt tripping text messages 24 hours later is just unprofessional.

You are NOT a sole trader obviously. If you deal with schools, hospitals, estate agents you are signing contracts with them that state terms and conditions for both sides. Those contracts will have gone through procurement processes and you too will have gone through vetting. .
A plumber who comes to my house to fix a leak, who normally allows payment WITHIN the next 10 days but who, because it’s Christmas, calls to say “any chance of payment” is not the same as you.
He didn’t demand or hassle for payment when he called he only asked if there was any chance of payment. That doesn’t make him.an evil CF.
if I was that plumber I’d never darken her doorstep again - leak or no leak.

So many posters berating op for not having the money to pay the plumber immediately- why is no one asking why the plumber hasn’t budgeted better so he doesn’t have to chase for payment earlier than his invoice states?!

A sole trader is a business, payment terms are standard for sole traders, we deal with a wide variety of customers from the couple at number 33 to national companies - as such our invoicing needs to be as on point as a multinational, including payment terms, terms of business etc.

Often immediate payment isn't possible, which is where the payment term comes into play.

If no payment term is given on the invoice the law defaults to 30 days.

I’ve never heard of payment terms unless you are a business. Did he say again this time it was 10 days or just what he has said previously? I’d alway expect to pay when job is complete. If he hasn’t already I’m sure he will change this to payment on completion. He wouldn’t be asking unless he really needed it too, especially twice. He really isn’t being cheeky at all. If anything he’s been a fool to not insist he’s paid when the work is done.

Honestly I wouldn't overthink it. Sounds like his circumstances might have changes as well - and he needed the payment earlier. Maybe other customers hadn't paid or an unexpected bill came up for him. The bottom line is that he asked, you said no, he checked again, you said still no, he left it at that. I don't think it makes him a CF - as you pointed out, there is a CoL crisis going on, perhaps this affected him too temporarily.

Exactly that, and what's Christmas go to do with anything?

Sigh. Op wasn’t being chased. The terms of the invoice were payment within 10 days. Op paid at 5 days. She still had another 5 days leeway. If you’re a hard up plumber - change the terms of your invoice…

I'm a sole trader myself, he's being totally unprofessional, you set your terms, which can be immediate payment if you wish.

I've been in the electrical trade over 20 years, and very rarely do I get paid on the day of the job, even for small domestic work, I tender my invoice and get paid in due course.

I would never chase an invoice within the payment term window, poor form.

Meh, every chance he’s a sole trader and the client is not a big company like the ones you describe that have to go through the rigmorale of accounts departments. Granted he wouldn’t be able to take action yet but I don’t think he’s a CF for saying “any chance you could send payment over today?” on Christmas week for services already rendered.

That's wrong, payment terms are just that - my invoices state 28 days, if I am not paid by the end of the 28th day I can chase, but any time between receipt of the invoice and the end of that window is fine to pay.

Its pretty much impossible to take any action after 10 days, the law considers 30 days as being standard.

As a tradesman I can say this is nonsense, a lot of our customers schools, hospitals, estate agents, restaurants, retail etc don't pay immediately - if you offer payment terms then you should stick to them - and not hassle the customer within the payment window.

Not CF territory, he was asking for money you owed him for a service he had provided. It sounds like he was hoping to get an earlier than deadline payment likely on account of it being Christmas this week and having extras to pay out for. It doesn’t sound like he started demanding it, just asked on the off chance. CF’s are people who wangle out of paying their way, or take advantage of others generosity whilst offering nothing in return.

Id also imagine that although his payment terms state 10 days, the very vast majority pay immediately and had therefore mentally spent the money for the job on something Xmas related before receiving it and was kicking himself for having terms that might now put him in a precarious financial position.

Payment within 10 days to me would mean due immediately following the completion of the work but no later than 10 days in any event as that’s when charges/further action could be taken.

No - payment terms are payments terms. If they state 10 days to pay then you’ve got 10 days to pay. Simple.

You should have paid him immediately when he finished.

Payments terms are something businesses have.

You shouldn't engage services you don't have the means to pay for.

His request for payment was fine. Not sure what response you need from him? Why would he thank you for completing your part of the transaction?

Op why would pegging be on your spelling list Huuummmmm
You been looking it up, dont worry us netters wont say a word.

More common than you think, I know a lot of plumbers, most are good trades but poor businessmen, and plumbing materials are very expensive, they are often overdrawn at the plumbers merchants, scraping round for some cash to be taken off "stop" so they can get some more gear.