Should he pay?

I thought society had got away with the whole ‘has penis should pay’ regarding a virtual stranger paying for someone else’s food and drink. I’m pushing 60 and it was an outdated view even in my day.
Im quite surprised to see it seems to be so prevalent nowadays.

Offering to pay is a nice gesture from someone you barely know, expecting it is entitled and grabby

We don’t have to go back to the 1950s as women still aren’t treated or paid equally to men.

I’d like to see equal pay and equal treatment first, before giving up the very few responsibilities that the patriarchy expects of men to allow them preferential treatment in all areas of life.

I'm in my 60s and would expect to split the bill on a first date.
I can't speak for women in their 70s though - things changed pretty quickly in terms of women not automatically staying at home with children and relying on men for money, so it's possible that some women in their 70s might expect the man to pay, as that's what their experience has been.....

However, on my first date with the man I'm seeing, he insisted on paying - I accepted then I paid on our second date and we've alternated since then.

I online dated before settling down with my current partner. If I had no intention of seeing the person again I would insist on splitting the bill, if I wanted to see them again I would let them pay and I would get the bill next time. If I was with someone and they asked proactively for the waiter to split the bill I would assume they weren't that keen on me, and any subsequent invitations I would assume they were "trying to see if there were a connection". I probably wouldnt accept a second date.

I don't do dinner on first dates for this reason. Much prefer a couple of drinks where you both buy a round so you can see if you actually like each other first.

Take it in turns?

I’ve already posted that it’s a strange quirk of OLD, but the most respectful guys who value women and treat them like equals always pay.

the guys who didn’t were all tossers and were more likely to view dating as transactional.

that’s definitely been my experience and that of many feminist female friends who’ve also been OLD.

and splitting the bill isn’t necessarily ‘feminist’ either - particularly for a man in his 70’s. He has benefited from a system that his given him a financial advantage for 50+ years. He would have probably bought a house for 50p because when he was young women weren’t even allowed to have mortgages.

even if his new date was in same profession, he was very likely being paid more.

he should offer to pay.

This.

I do think society should get away from the entitlement of expecting other people to pay your way but it's going to be a generational movement and at her age, yep it would come as a shock.

What if they didn't want to see you again? How would you know until after the event - given that they might have second thoughts? Splitting up front removes that issue altogether. And also demonstrates that you're not a skinflint!

What has maternity leave funding got to do with a dinner date? Literally nothing. It's sheer 'whatboutery'. I can't have kids so strangely enough have never thought about maternity leave arrangements when on a first date, but I doubt that fertile women have either.

I'm glad that Mumsnet is very pro 50/50 because some attitudes belong to former centuries when women often didn't or couldn't work. Paying for your own dinner is hardly burning your bra, it should be the default position.

Yes really. I’m in my 50’s and in my brief foray into OLD I was inundated by men from late 60’s right up to 82 trying yo tell me why we’re perfect for each other invariably stating ‘age is nothing but a number’

And no the vast majority of women in their 50’s have no interest at all but it doesn’t stop the men trying

I very much doubt they’d approach the same women in the outside world but OLD seems to make men think women young enough yo be their daughters are gagging for them whether they’re 40 or 90

By asking to split the bill he will ensure that he will never see her again.

I don’t care what feminists say, doing that on first date will broadcast that he is stingy penny pincher and lacking generosity. Major turn off.

Let us know how it goes…

@Heriam he isn't a Feminist hes a man and that specifically excludes him from being 1.
I don't know if its the way you've described him or not but he also sounds like a bit of a twat and the way he speaks about equality between the sexs screams weaponisation of feminism

Well the way I operated was I would allow the man to pay if I planned on seeing them again, and would insist on splitting if not.

Mumsnet is very pro 50/50 bill split but is also full of women saying their partner won’t marry them and being expected to fund their maternity leave from their own savings. Not an attractive attitude from a man.

Have we gone back to the 1950s? Should he also place his coat over puddles for her, or aid her to sit at the table by pushing her chair in?

Then it clearly WAS an issue for you had the man not paid!

I don't think my post warranted such a strong reaction, @JHound . I've tried OLD and meeting for coffee is usual. You're meeting a total stranger even if you have chatted online.

Hmmm men are always happy to jump on the feminist bandwagon when it’s in their favour, aren’t they?

Id rather he campaigned for equal pay, but might not be so appealing!

While I think in principle it should be fine to split the bill ( and I did often when OLD), the truth is the decent men always insisted on paying.

It’s a paradox because the men who make a big thing about splitting ALWAYS ended up being ( sexist) wankers.

I think in their age group he is massively risking offending her

Really?

I mean I understand they might like that, but I surely women in their 50s wouldn't usually be interested in men in their 70s?

Most of the 70+ daters / new relationships I know are roughly the same age

It might be equal but it isn’t equitable. In all likelihood it will cost the lady more to go on the date. Maybe having to think about her safety with a cab for example. It’s likely, though not necessarily the case, that she will spend more getting ready.

If he asked her or he suggested a restaurant, he should pay. If he’s interested in this woman and is likely to want to see her again, there will be plenty of opportunity for him to show his feminist qualities. In her position, I’d think that he thought the date had gone badly and was saying he didn’t want to meet up again if he split the bill. If I did believe that he wanted to continue the relationship despite him splitting the bill, I’d think he was likely to be tight and mean spirited in general, which would be off putting.

Quite! Although there was that poster recently who didn't take enough money to cover a taxi/Uber to/from her date and then got cross when he didn't offer to walk her to the tube. Not his responsibility in my book.

Also I hate all of this 'person in their 70s' stuff. There isn't a rulebook on how people in their 70s act, think or feel. My mum is 77 - today actually! - and she instilled in me from a very young age the importance of going Dutch. She wouldn't be offended if someone offered to split the bill with her, she would be offended if someone insisted on paying the whole thing themselves! (And wouldn't let them either!)

If he suggested the restaurant and hasn’t said upfront that he will only pay for himself then he needs to pay for it all , how does he know that she can afford it ?

It's up to him, you can point out a lot of people prefer to take turns rather than have the admin, which might put her off him

So perhaps if he wants to see her again, say I'll do this - you can do the next one

If Not, split it

I wouldn't be comfortable with him paying for my food , because it would make me feel like more was expected from me later .
But I'm 50 ,so a lady in her 70s may feel it's expected the man pays
Different generations have different expectations

If he’s asked her out, he should pay. She is in her 70’s so will be expecting him to pay - I agree with you, it would be crude otherwise.