The bloody service charge!

but the menu os transparent about the cost of labour/service from the start.

I think around 95% of restaurants clearly state the cost on their menu.

It is not bunged on as a surprise.

The optional element is in case you have had terrible service.

Exactly the same as if I put my car in for MOT and it needed works doing, they would quote for parts and labour. I would expect to pay for the labour except if the workmanship was shoddy.

Don’t tell me you don’t tip supermarket staff stacking shelves for 10 hours a day while constantly dealing with customers’ questions?

Tight.

Many workman do quote their price for labour separately. They often adjust this, normally up, when the job starts. If you feel this is not good value for money you would argue the labour costs.

Actually you could do if the workmanship was shoddy you might argue that oart of the bill.

Actually if they did a crap job you’d argue the cost wouldn’t you.
You wouldn’t be arguing the cost of the materials but the price of the standard of execution.

@CaliRach "I never quite understand the 'American import' take on tipping culture.
I'm in my late 40's. As kids we ate out a lots with our parents and friends, in restaurants. My parents always tipped, leaving a note of whatever value on the plate. That's 40 years ago.
I really don't think tipping is a new thing at all."

Tipping itself is not a new thing in the UK, as you say, but you also mention that your parents always left a note of whatever value on the plate.

There's a difference between "leaving a note" in appreciation of the service received and being forced to pay a mandatory service charge of up to 20% for whatever level of service the management deems to be acceptable. It is the inflation of the size of the tip, and the expectation that a tip will be paid (and that it is not voluntary) and the business model that assumes that employees can be paid minimum wages because they will be able to make their wages up with tips that is the "American import" aspect.

where do the non tippers stand on hairdressers, are you similarly tight?

Its called a discretionary X% service charge. Discretionary means optional/at my own discretion so yes, of course you can ask for it to be removed or only pay a smaller percentage.

1. most public facing jobs are expected to 'put a smile' on (i.e. engage politely) for the duration of their shift, this isn't unique to waiters or even hospitality staff
2. if a waiter had ever "made me feel delighted" I would absolutely tip them. I've enjoyed lots of meals out but it's usually because the food was great (thanks to the chef) or the company entertaining (my friends/family) - can't remember when the person delivering the food has ever particularly elevated the experience to the point of delight. Some have been perfectly competent and friendly, others utterly useless and miserable, but "delighted"....nah!

It's not "added", no ... it's part of the price, and having paid the price there's no expectation that you'll bung them more

I never quite understand the 'American import' take on tipping culture.

I'm in my late 40's. As kids we ate out a lots with our parents and friends, in restaurants. My parents always tipped, leaving a note of whatever value on the plate. That's 40 years ago.

I really don't think tipping is a new thing at all.

Thats not the same at all, the labour is part of the job youre paying for and isnt optional.

But you dont as the consumer get to decide how much the man hours cost at a garage, and its not optional.

If restaurants put the whole price on the menu and no tips, that would be great

Service is added separately at garages isn’t it.
labour and parts?

Same for a painter and decorator right
labour and materials

An extra £5 for maybe 10 minutes they spend taking the order and bringing the food, drinks and bill isn't bad considering they're also getting paid a normal wage, I wouldn't scoff at that personally, they'll be serving multiple tables if all of them tipped £5 it could be a very good hourly rate
It's not a highly skilled job, there are many minimum wage jobs just as hard work with no tips

If you don’t want to tip eat at Maccie D’s or such like

I asked the same thing upthread. Not sure anyone has an answer to this…

So still no answer as to why wait staff should be singled out for tipping when it doesn't apply to others doing equally hard jobs with lengthy hours ...?

I dont think there is a guide

The service charge is usually below what I’d normally tip so I don’t mind!

I still tip in cash rather than opting for the added on the bill.

One of my DC’s works in a cafe, in an expensive city. His tips keep him afloat.

This is why I no longer eat out at all.
Last time I stopped for a coffee somewhere, they tried to add a service charge on just for handing me a cup over the counter at the till, so I don't even use cafes now.

We are not the US, where wages are traditionally lower and it is understood that without tips people couldn't do the job.
There is no need to tip someone in the UK who is being paid the same money as most of their customers, just because they carried some crockery from A to B.
I have, in the past, worked as a waitress and in various bars or pubs so I do know what the job entails.

I also resent being told that if I order a more expensive meal, the person who carried the plate somehow deserves more of my money for carrying it than they'd get if I ordered the cheapest thing on the menu.

It doesn't really change the amount of work waitstaff do, whether I order the most expensive or cheapest thing if it fits on one plate or in one glass, so why should I give them more because I'm spending more on my meal?

Just because someone has gone out to eat, doesn't mean they didn't save up all year to afford that one meal out or that they are loaded enough to throw money at randoms who happen to work in a restaurant, quite likely on the same wage.

I used to tip if service was particularly good or the wait staff were pleasant, but as soon as the service charge stuff came in I completely stopped.

It’s pretty standard practise for anywhere with table service. It’s also usually stated on the menu.

the only time I ask for it taken off is if the service has been bad (went out a few weeks ago and my friends meal had to be chased up 3 times, to finally be told after the rest of us had finished that she needed to re-order).

if you would normally tip, why are you being so petty about it?

Tbh I also only ever tip (cash only) after asking if the person gets to keep the full tip themselves so I thought £5 direct to the waiter/waitress for "service was fine, not brilliant, but alright" was ok .

Usually 10% as a guide is it not ?