The bloody service charge!

Restaurants where I live in Europe have to provide good service and good food at a reasonable price or they go under very quickly. Tipping is not expected.

UK restaurants suffer from high rents, high costs of electricity and utilities and high costs of finance, all of which cut into their profit margins. In an attempt to mitigate this they have resorted to buying in pre-made food that just requires heating up (so no chefs or qualified staff are required) and to employing cheap labour to serve the customers, hoping that the customers will make up the wages by tipping - and if the customers don't oblige, they will attempt to add items such as mandatory service charges. The result is a downward spiral - the cost of visiting a restaurant increases while at the same time, the service levels and the food quality deteriorates, all at a time when consumers are under financial pressure and are cutting back on discretionary spending.

I’ve worked stacking shelves, I’ve cleaned toilets, I’ve worked as a waitress and i’ve worked as a receptionist amongst many other minimum wage jobs.

Waiting tables is by far the hardest both physically and mentally, followed by cleaning toilets. Shelf stacking and reception/office jobs are not even in the same ball park. Stop trying to think you have written a gotcha. It’s embarrassing.

Interesting hearing Brits complain that tipping is an American import and they won’t indulge in it. In NYC the minimum wage for wait staff is $16.50/hr. Surprisingly, that’s about £12.20/hr which I think is the national minimum wage in the UK? It’s possible for employers to pay under $16.50/hr but they have to make up the difference from tips or their revenue - either way, wait staff are guaranteed a minimum of $16.50/hr and you can tell which establishments pay under and which ones hand over all tips to staff. We - meaning customers - STILL tip 20%, because we know it’s a shit job, exhausting, minimum job security, not the best social security safety net, and staff are either young people paying their way through college, or looking for better work, or having to actually raise a family on these wages. If we can afford to eat out, we’re automatically better off than these workers and it’s just a cost to be taken into account when deciding whether to go out or not. Menu price + tax + tip. It’s not a human right, it’s a luxury that has to be costed like other luxuries. No need to be stingy, some jobs are shit. And yes, we also tip valet parking people, we tip building staff (in my condo building it totals around $3000 each year, and they’re all union staff already), we tip the mail man and the UPS guy and the newspaper delivery guy etc etc. The issue is the disparity between those who have and those who don’t. The UK is heading towards a similarly huge divide, hence the people in the middle complaining the loudest.

Ive not advocated for that at all.

Tbf i think I misread your post, I thought you were referring to the place making the extra service charge mandatory rather than just increase their prices.

But, yea, either way I did the opposite of advocating for that, indeed I believe I said id stop going.

The server is working for tips.

I think you don’t understand that.

There is a national shortage of waiting staff. If thy made no tips that shortage would be even more acute and you’re right there probably wouldn’t be a server.

If you don’t tip you are being propped up by all the people that do.

Fucking hell, that’s stingy. Hope your DS or DD never takes up a job stacking shelves and encounters customers like you. Eeeesh. Who on earth thinks you only pay for the food you buy at a supermarket when staff are paid NMW?!

But if the service was included in the food price, which is what you are advocating for, you’d have no choice but to pay the service.

You can’t have it both ways

What? Of course the cost of the service is included in the price that the restaurant charges. How else will the customer be able to order and how will the food get from the kitchen to the table?

One answer is of course automated ordering - where the diners order using a tablet or an app - and where the food is delivered by a robot. Systems like this already exist in Japan and Spain, and many Mumsnetters will have experienced it at Lego House in Billund.

If automated systems like this become the norm, will diners still be expected to pay a service charge - who will they be tipping?

Something I've mentioned above is the appearance of a "cover charge" in addition to the mandatory service charge. In effect, what some restaurants are attempting to do is to make the price of the food seem reasonable while making the guest pay separately for the food to be prepared and cooked (the cover charge) and to be served (the service charge).

No they don’t provide a service to a particular customer.

Don’t be ridiculous.

I like trying new places and tipping the amount I feel is fair direct to the wait staff if the service is excellent.

So, respectfully, no.

In countries where service is included customers just pay more relative to the cost of living.

People also tend to eat out less.

Of course they are providing a service. When a customer asks where something is and they direct them, or a customer can’t reach a product on a shelf and they get on a step ladder to retrieve it, that’s a service. Stacking shelves and keeping shelves and aisles organised, and floors clean of spillages and other mess, is providing a service. It’s hard, physically demanding work and pays NMW. Are you seriously telling me you don’t tip these workers when you use a supermarket? How tight is that... 😐

Honestly you have nom idea.
There is a national shortage of staff for restaurants.

Every restaurant owner will tell you the main problem is staffing.

If you like eating out pay the tip.

Then just pay the service if it wouldn’t bother you.

Youre right, we shouldn’t need it, but customers would need to be prepared to pay at least 10% more for their food and drinks for restaurants to make a reasonable profit. People don’t want to pay that much though and they just stop going out.

Yes it does go to the staff.
It’s part of their salary.

Restaurants are constantly short staffed, there is a national shortage of chefs.
There is a reason people don’t want to join the industry.

If you like eating out sometimes, pay the service.

Agree i dont feel mean at all if it dont tip. I feel a bit mean if I complain about the service so I dont tend to, I just dont tip them.

I presume she earns at least the minimum wage, which ia factored into the price of a meal, so no we aren't mean.

There should be no such thing as a service charge. Employees should be paid a fair wage. End of.

I normally ask where my tip goes. My daughter worked in a cafe once where the tips went in the till as profit for the owner, she didn’t work there long but no.

Tbf if it became mandatory id just stop trying new places and only go to ones where the service is always excellent. Wouldnt bother me.

But the tip money is supposed to go to the staff, not the restaurant.

In countries where tipping is not customary the price of the meal compared to the cost of living is always more.

Those moaning about it might want to consider that at least they have the ability right now to refuse to pay it. If it was included you’s pay exactly the same amount as if service was there.

Do you realise how many restaurants go under within their first year?

Restaurants do not charge for the service within the price of the meal.

The service is the labour part of the bill.

If you could understand how little money is made on a meal once you have bought the raw ingredients, paid someone to cook, clean up, manage the restaurant and paid for rent rates and even refuse collection, napkins, stolen items etc.

The service is the labour element for the server and sometimes split to the back of house staff too.

I only go to the hairdresser maybe once every 5 years or so (cut/dye my own hair) but usually give whoever washed my hair a few quid tip. I dont tip the stylist because tbh they never do what ive asked for, partly why I very rarely go and do my own hair!

Are supermarket shelf stackers providing a service for a particular customer and for a particular job. No they aren’t.