The bloody service charge!

Nurses (until a couple of weeks ago 🙄) were deemed professionals meaning there are state and federal rules around pay scales. They’re not paid huge salaries, but a RN and a policeman would earn enough to raise two children in the suburbs decently.

Carers: yes, they would get an annual bonus from their employers. We give as much to our cleaning lady, gave annual bonuses to our nanny (who, back then, was paid $25/hr). Note that there’s no “dole” equivalent or straightforward NHS equivalent. Lots of things are paid out of pocket so wages are higher.

Trash collectors: in NYC this is a highly coveted job! The conditions and pay and pension are immense. It’s not unknown to be taking home 6 figures, union conditions and a copper plated pension.

Cashier: no, no tips. Minimum wage only. This job isn’t considered as difficult as wait staff.

It’s a completely different mindset, really. The base assumption is that nobody is looking out for anyone. From there you’ll find lobbying for a minimum wage, better work conditions, higher pay. Add it all together and some professions are incredibly highly paid and stable, others less so. So it’s culturally accepted that those with more give (by eg tips and bonuses) more to help even out. It’s the privatization of welfare, really. And I think that’s probably where the UK is headed.

Since opting out of the service charge is becoming normalised (as evidenced by several posters on this thread saying they always ask for it to be removed), restaurants will be forced to move to an all-in price, like other food establishments (coffee shops, takeaways etc.).

Surely you don’t think the job of wait staff at a sit-down restaurant is more difficult and physically demanding than that of a barista? A barista who is on their feet all day, making coffees, toasting sandwiches, mixing smoothies, operating dishwashers, clearing tables, sweeping the floor, cleaning customer loos, dealing with MANY more customers over the course of a shift. They’re not getting their NMW wages supplemented by 12.5% service charge on orders, are they?

It’s one thing to say that the service charge is there so restaurants can cover labour costs and make a profit (which I don’t disagree with), it’s quite another to suggest it’s needed because waiting tables in a sit-down restaurant is uniquely gruelling among low-paid jobs, because the latter is a nonsense.

Just because some jobs are grossly underpaid doesn't give reason to not tip in restaurants.

Such a strange mentality.

And for the record refuse collectors and phlebotomists are not on minimum wage

Out of interest do you also tip nurses, carers, phlebotomist, receptionist at the Dr's surgery, trash collectors, street sweepers, cashier at supermarket etc? In the UK, health professionals that could be working 12hr night shifts and other unsocial hours, are NOT allowed to to accept cash payments and any gift over X amount must be declared. Is is the same in the US or do you tip ALL people providing a service?

let’s correct that for you

It is ridiculously expensive for restaurants to buy in food, deliver it and staff and upkeep their premise nowadays.

I was speaking to a restaurant owner who told me that service charges are essentially standard now, given that so few people actually tip.

You said tips top up the wage.

Customers tip. Meaning their tip tops up the wage. (Going off your view,)

So its correct to say its not the customers responsibility to directly top up their wage.

Also cash tips directly to the worker is in no way unlawful.

Eating out is ridiculously expensive anyway without service charges being added on. I always ask for it to be removed but I think they work on the assumption that people will be too embarrassed to do this.
I don't leave a tip either.

The difficulty is that in a group, no one wants to be the person who says “this is ridiculous, I’ll get it removed” so the cheeky restaurants get away with it.

also those of you who say it saves you working it out…how hard is it to calculate 10% which I believe to be standard.

I rarely go out to eat. It’s a rip off these days and not even pleasurable. The money saved pays for the mounjaro!

I hate a service charge being added too. I always send it back and ask that it is removed. If I want to leave a tip, I will but generally don't if they try to add it on.

They’re not paying directly to the staff, in fact that’s illegal.

All tips are paid to the restaurant and declared by law and tax is deducted before distribution. Exactly as wages are and paid by the employer

I get the feeling on here that there’s a lack of understand about what waiting tables means.
How anyone can compare it to stacking shelves is beyond me.

There’s a also a real lack of understand about how hard it is to make a profit in a restaurant right now. Food costs and energy prices are through the roof.

perhaps though with the minimum wage being increased again shortly restaurants may well just increase their prices and get rid of service charge. Which ever way you look at it service charge is just part of the cost of eating out whether that is separated or included within the food price. Currently it’s separated but either way it needs to be paid

There is a reasonable, living wage. It's called the national minimum wage.

Minimum wage is widely accepted as not being a living wage. The living wage is higher than MW. Whether the LW is actually a LW is another debate.

Its not the customers responsibility to pay wages directly to the staff.

two wrongs don't make a right

Have you ever seen the profit and loss accounts of most restaurants?

Dear lord!

Have you put average rents and student debt through your inflation calculator?

No the tips top up the wage.

It’s not hard to understand

There is a reasonable, living wage. It's called the national minimum wage.

I'm old enough to remember the times before a national minimum wage, in fact I was earning myself as a student in the mid 90s on £2.50 an hour in a dickensian packing factory. £2.50 put through an inflation calculator for today woudl be £5.19 per hour, well below the actual minimum wage of £12.21, less than half of that in fact. So given that restaurant staff get at least minimum wage, any tip should be truly discretionary.

You cannot be talking about the UK. Any server who is only "working for tips" is going to quit within the first week as they won't be able to exist - and in any case, they are supposed to be earning at least the UK minimum wage before tips. In most UK restaurants, the servers do not get to keep their individual tips - instead the money goes into a pool (or Tronc) and is shared between all of the staff including the kitchen staff.

One case for not tipping (or at least, for not agreeing to a mandatory service charge of up to 20%) is to force employers to pay a reasonable, livable wage to their staff. If there's a national shortage of waiting staff, perhaps restaurant owners need to think why this might be - could it be down to poor wages and crappy working conditions? If a business cannot survive except by cutting the quality of the inputs - in this case the raw ingredients, the kitchen staff and the front of house staff - then does it deserve to survive?

"If you don’t tip you are being propped up by all the people that do."

Nope - those who tip are propping up the employers, they're not propping up those who don't tip.

The other week I bought a beauty advent calendar online and the shopping basket had the option to tip. I thought that was cheeky too. I didn't add a tip.

I was going to say the same. The minimum wage in the UK is decent. Hospitality establishments are taking the mick. Especially when they ask for a tip AND a service charge. I also think the tip should go to the person who served you.

But I also think it's really patronising, I am not the Queen, and I'm certainly not giving tips to hairdressers and the like.

I also don't see why retail staff who apparently need protecting so much from the horrors of Sunday working, don't deserve a tip.

You’re being utterly ridiculous and haven’t actually explained why wait staff deserve to be paid more than these other jobs. And it’s only certain wait staff. A barista who is on their feet for 10 hours a day, making coffees, toasting sandwiches, clearing tables and cleaning the customer toilets is not getting 12.5% of orders on top of their NMW wages, are they? But somehow the waiter who takes your order at Zizzi and carries plates back and forth is getting paid extra? It makes zero sense. Your point on labour shortage is valid, but this means restaurants need to increase prices full stop. Not introduce a sneaky ‘cover charge’ or increase the service charge % (we went from 10% to 12.5% and now 15-20% is increasingly common). Just have an all-in price on the menu like at Starbucks.

I hate tipping so much. Why are only some service workers worthy of extra money?! Taxi drivers get a tip but bus drivers don’t?! Waitress gets a tip but McDonald’s server doesn’t? It makes no sense.
also, went out for a meal recently with added 12.5% service charge and our waiter told us he didn’t get that so if we wanted to tip him specifically we’d have to add more!! so what is it for?!

Yes, and that's only 2.5%