Husband is insistent on joining trail hunt tomorrow

Many on this thread are very confused about what legal trail hunting is and have made up a total mischaracterisation and are happy to demonise a whole group of people based on assumptions and prejudice

I've addressed this point several times too. It's becoming very wearisome addressing the same, often irrelevant or illogical, arguments put forward repeatedly by hunt supporters.

You talk about "extreme" reactions but frankly it's the hunt supporters who are coming across overly emotional and unable to let go of emotional responses or irrational points.

Yes the ones in that link are foxhounds and they have been known to chase foxes if they're that way inclined.

Question is, would you see people on horseback and presume they're out to kill foxes or would you consider they're hunting a scent with bloodhounds which are not a threat to foxes?

No, it isn't 61 kills over a two year period. The fox hunting season is 1st November to late April. On what planet can that conceivably be two years? To assess two years' statistics you have to take, say, 1/11/23 to 30/4/25.

Moreover, as has been pointed out, this is only the relatively few hunts that have actually been monitored, Thousands more take place without monitoring.

Killing by pet dogs isn't comparable as it isn't a legally sanctioned sport. Over 80% of halal meat in the UK involves animals that were stunned before slaughter. No, I don't condone slaughter without stunning.

A bloodhound, for example, is different to a foxhound.

It’s not illogical to point out the extreme reaction from some people about the unlawful killing of some foxes vs a very muted reaction to the unlawful (and avoidable) killing of vast numbers of farm animals by pet dogs.

Many on this thread are very confused about what legal trail hunting is and have made up a total mischaracterisation and are happy to demonise a whole group of people based on assumptions and prejudice.

That doesn’t sound entirely ethical. However stalking a deer would be. Of course there will always be circumstances in which hunting for food isn’t done ethically but overall I believe it’s much much more humane than factory farming systems.

Your logic falls down when you take into account that no-one has any objection to hunting cross-country runners. And that is not simply because it doesn't involve killing animals, it also means hunts don't trespass on people's land. You won't find anyone objecting to this, no matter how upper-class the participants are, provided that the hunts are still run legally and there is no suggestion of leading hounds to where they will find foxes or other wild animals.

See also polo. Very much an upper class sport - when do you see anti polo demonstrations?

Why are you pursuing a point about pest control with two posters who weren't talking about pest control?

One poster responding to a post about eating what you catch and the other poster (me) who pointed that out to you?

Having seen a live fox caught in a snare and a stag killed by a hunt I would say neither are humane pest control methods. Deer and fox numbers both need managing but not by those methods. Deer stalking by ethical professionals is probably more humane.

A method that doesn't involve drinking rituals, dressing up, partying, the blowing of horns, chasing animals for hours, blocking roads, trespass and horses and dogs straying on roads would be a start.

You shoot animals, how can you say you love animals in the same post?!

No problem, there is a system in place for humane culling of deer. It doesn't justify hunting them with dogs for fun.

I have answered this question about 3 times already.

A total ban on walking dogs on all farmland (presumably land owned by farms as opposed to being actively farmed) sounds deeply impractical and impossible to police but I would certainly support more robust legislation to protect farm animals from rogue dogs and people ignorant of the country code.

The arguments put forward by hunt supporters on this thread are largely so illogical that one has to wonder how serious such people are.

@Overallsand @FuzzyFelt85

So would you agree or disagree that foxes may need pest control and if so what method would you find acceptable?

I was responding to the poster that said that hunting is okay because they fill their freezer. This is a thread about trail hunting that ends up in foxes being killed. I think you understand my point perfectly well.

The point they are making is in relation to the post to which they were replying - which was about food, not pests.

Local hunt here is like this. Hounds lost everywhere, appear to be following a trail but are clearly looking for foxes to chase. Rules say not to disturb foxes, I have met the disturbed fox on my land. They managed to chase and kill a fox through a local tourist attraction, but are still out “trail hunting”.

I don't understand your point. People kill lots of animals that they don't eat such as mice or rats. It's called pest control.

Are you disagreeing with foxes being labelled as pests or is the means of pest control, if so what method would you accept to use for foxes?

This is not true.

On Exmoor deer are still killed by the hunt. They select an animal and then pursue it, often for hours. They use dogs in relay teams so that the dogs don't tire and can keep up a hunt until the terrified and exhausted deer is unable to run any more. Groups of horses, shouting, horns being blown and hounds in persuit. For hours.

Then, when the deer has been in torment, for hours, a horn is sounded and the deer is shot.

I saw this happen this year at Tarr Steps. It was horrific. You could see the terror in the stags eyes and it could barely stand through exhaustion. It happened feet from a public footpath where dog walkers and people with prams witnessed the kill. It is no way for an animal to die.

This is not better than the slaughterhouse.

Could you explain the different breeds ?

were the hounds used in this trail hunt - that I posted earlier and nobody has acknowledged – not ones that kill foxes ?

www.league.org.uk/news-and-resources/news/brazen-hunt-threw-fox-to-hounds-to-be-ripped-apart/

Send me a link when you’ve started your imaginary campaign and I’ll have a look!

Legal trail hunts train their dogs to follow a trail.

I’m going to start a campaign to ban people buying dogs originally bred to hunt or kill and walking all dogs on farmland, are you in?

As someone that does this every winter, I have had no fox related incidents. The reason being trail hunting and most certainly clean boot hunting uses different dog breeds who would do well to catch a fox, let alone harm it.

What’s that supposed to mean? You do realise that meat you purchase at the supermarket is from animals, don’t you? Just because you’ve managed to separate yourself from reality doesn’t mean others are wrong because they don’t. I much prefer food we have hunted - it’s much more ethical and much less stress for an animal than being carted around in a lorry to a slaughterhouse etc.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Dogs (pets) rampaging around livestock and killing it is not right. This does not mean that trail hunting resulting in the death of foxes is right. Both can be wrong. These desperate barrel-scraping comparisons (someone earlier tried to argue that killing foxes is fine because sometimes people hire rentokil for rats??!!!) prove nothing.

Here are the correct League of Cruel Aports figures (from only 12 months of trail
hunting!):

Nearly 1,400 incidents, comprising 526 reports of suspected illegal hunting and 870 reports of hunt havoc, were recorded in the League’s end of hunting season report covering November 2023 to March 2024.

The number of actual convictions doesn’t equate, see also – rape cases

Absolutely. I believe if a dog is rampaging through their animals, the farmer has every right to shoot them?