To not let children have Xmas lunch with grandparents when parents are divorcing

I’m really sorry you are going through this OP. I get that your in-laws would like to see their child (and kids) on Christmas Day, but I’m shocked that they think it’s ok to take very young children away from their mother in the process!! Your baby’s first Christmas?! Horrendously selfish. Their child is an adult, they’ve had all the childhood christmases with him. To intentionally deprive you is awful.

I know you don’t like them (understandably!), but I would be tempted to compromise on letting them see your children for Christmas lunch (if it makes your life easier), but at your house, with you there and for a set period of time. I think that would be very generous given the circumstances. Letting your ex and his parents do as they please now, could easily set a precedent for future christmases etc. Hope you manage to find a resolution you are happy with 💜

Surely, in tgat case, he takes the 4 year old, but you keep the youngest? His parents are going to have to get used to the change.

This advice is all well and good but how exactly is she going to stop him taking the kids 🤷‍♀️

He’s a selfish, controlling, lazy, poor excuse for a father, dick head. I’m so so mad for you, how dare he decide he wants a divorce and only parent on a Saturday and then take the kids away leaving you on your own on Christmas Day ! It’s not fair !!!

However I don’t see how you can stop him without causing a fight and upsetting the kids. So do it for the kids, keep that in mind, have a really great morning and then chill out in the afternoon. Then after the New Year you take back some control and get a solicitor or he’s going to continue to call the shots. You can do this 💐

YANBU. It's in the best interest of these very young children to spend Christmas with their main caregiver, their mother, as the eldest has every previous year. Their father can spend time with them on Christmas Day as well (at least this year as you're still living together), but the grandparents presumably don't have parental responsibility and no "rights" to see the children as such.

The grandparents' hostility towards you means that the only obvious compromise (all of you having Christmas dinner together) probably won't be possible. So, the children should stay with you.

Sadly, I don't know how you could stop your STBEXH taking them. Can you speak to a solicitor urgently?

I would feed them a big breakfast in the morning (pancakes etc.) and wouldn't lift a finger to help him get them out of the house. They'll probably leave considerably after 12pm if he doesn't have a lot of experience getting 2 small kids ready and out, by which time you can be bustling about cooking your own Christmas meal anyway.

The other option is to tell him that this year can be his Christmas and you'll be spending the day with family, so he'll have to care for the kids the whole day and overnight.

OP I just wanted to share this information about deflection with you. Just a couple of things you have said (plus my world weary eyes) make me think your STBX might be doing this to you a lot. My exH did this so much and would often say I was being unreasonable (or worse) if I ever disagreed with him and you do start to doubt yourself. You do start to feel like maybe you are a bad person. But it is not unreasonable to not want to be alone on Christmas Day, it is not unreasonable to want to spend your baby’s first Christmas them, it is not unreasonable to expect that if you are the primary parent you get to call the shots sometimes. Your opinions and your feelings are valid. You have as much right to get what you want as anyone else.

i found learning about deflection helpful because now when my x does this I recognise the behaviours. I can almost predict when he will do it and find it easier to not just lose my shit with him but take the dignified high ground. When he starts it I can see that this is his flaw, his lack of empathy and unwillingness to accept he might be wrong and not me being horrible. I do literally say to him you are deflecting again can we stick to the topic in hand.

hope everything goes ok for you. Men are dicks.

uktherapyguide.com/deflection-in-psychology-what-it-is-why-people-use-it-and-how-to-deal-with-it

This is a good idea. Hide the car seats. Are you scared of him?

This is an extremely sad situation. I really cannot imagine how you feel right now.

after this Christmas I would urge you to get a solicitor and have formal arrangements put in place for every week in the year as well
as holidays and bank holidays.
Your children must feel secure and having this formal arrangement will be in their best interests.

I think you need to come up with an agreement on how you are going to handle "special" days, otherwise he is going to pull this shit every year. If he doesn't agree go to court! Don't just put up with it. You have rights

Tell him if he has equal rights to the kids then he needs to take equal responsibility for them and do 50/50 care. If he wants to shirk his responsibility then he loses his rights. I personally would do presents and then take the kids out for lunch on the pretence of just popping out for a walk, if you can't come to an amicable arrangement in advance, which i steongly advise if at all possible. You absolutely do not want to be getting into a tug of war with him in the kids' presence, it will be horrific.

Also what right has he got to go on about keeping their routine when he's going to upend it by never seeing them? Selfish twat.

Don't be so petty OP, it won't bode well. The children take their cues from us and it is the actions of acrimonious parents who fuck it up for the kids.
Really, the kids aren't going to care who they eat their lunch with. A few hours spend with their fathers family seems reasonable. Saying no is just about pissing him/his family off.
Concentrate your efforts into realising you are going to be far better off without him and planning for your and your childrens future. It might seem satisfying but this isn't the start you want to be making right now 🤷‍♀️

He is talking about rights but this really need to be about what is in the best interests of the children. You need to be a bit clever here OP and make sure that’s what you talk about.

It is in the best interests of the children to be with their parents for the majority of Xmas day, which is what you are proposing not with extended family. Your proposal allows the GP to see the DC but after they have had their needs met ie food, naps and time with parents. Work on the basis that a court would review any discussions between you.

And yes file for divorce yourself. Get the process moving. Wishing you all the best

It would be a hard no from me.
He sounds like a prick. Best of luck to you & congratulations on your divorce xox

He can’t just have them on the fun days when you’re doing all the day to day drudgery. These sorts of days are your reward for all your hard work. You’re the primary carer so your rules 🤷‍♀️ I think your absolute ace card here is that he’s already said that Saturday is ‘his’ day and Christmas is on Thursday. Boo hoo, looks like he’s lucked out 😂

I personally wouldn’t give up Christmas Day until the youngest is at least 5. At least at that age they can properly tell you whether they’re ok to alternate Christmas because it’s about the kids, not the adults after all.

He is doing the classic thing of presuming that even though he is breaking up the family you will continually to behave as if you are married - I.e be accommodating/ compromising and taking into account his wishes.

stop doing all those things.

who cares what his solicitor says. He needs to leave. It is unreasonable and cruel of him to stay. You need to tell him every day.

he thinks he is still the boss.

what a cunt leaving you to do it all.

is there another woman in the picture?

honestly he is deluded.

divorce him.

take the power. Good luck op and I am sorry you are in this position. I was in a similar one some 10 years ago. It was hard. But I am so glad to not be married to him anymore. He still thinks I should accommodate him and his wishes and gets angry that I dont.

we can all say fuck him etc but you’re heading towards a huge battle and your kids are going to be the main ones to lose out. Even if you hate him(which I would), talk this out

A 4 yo is perfectly aware the difference between Xmas Eve and Xmas day.

If it’s all about the best interests of the kids why can’t her ex dh compromise? Why does he get to decide that she will have a shit day feeling all alone?

What you on about? He can't ban you from anything! Cook the lunch as early as you want and sit down with your children. After that phone the in laws and tell them to fuck right off! They have absolutely no rights to see your children. It might happen on a Saturday they have with their dad but not on your days.
I know it's hard OP but really you can't let these horrible people rule your life. Stand up now! I'm raging on your behalf

Take the car seats out of the cars and give them to a friend; tell him you and the children are staying home for Christmas this year. He doesn't get to dictate your life now that he's decided to leave you and the children and do the bare minimum.

I would strongly advise you OP to file for divorce yourself. You are then in control of the process. It was really useful when I was going through it.
I would also strongly advise you to get info of any accounts/shares/investments in his name, with copies of statements where possible. And take any money of yours out of joint accounts, if you have any. Your soon to be XDH sounds like a very controlling and abusive man, and he will probably try to hide assets if he can.
Also be very careful re internet - my ex put spyware on our family computer, thereby gaining access to all my passwords, and moved money (my inheritance from my parents, £60,000) from my sole account to one set up in my name but actually operated by him. I had to involve the bank's fraud squad ...
Good luck, and I wish you a peaceful Christmas.

You are being very reasonable in saying he can take them after lunch. If they are local have lunch the 4 of you at home and then put your feet up for a couple of hours while he pops around there in the afternoon.
Your dh and dils know that there will be inevitable alternate christmases so they should be thankful to see them at all.

In that case, feel free to tell him I think you are right and he's being an utter prick who seems to have mummy issues and appear to give a shiny shit about his children's well being and best interests. He's a selfish piece of crap for even considering taking your dc anywhere on Christmas day and leaving you alone.

Pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking this.

I think it’s pretty shit of him actually.

he left you

he is spending Xmas with loved ones but oh no he wants to leave you on your own while he has an amazing Christmas with everyone exactly where he wants them.

er no.

tell him he can have them after lunch for a few hours. And plan it around the little one’s nap time too.

Personally, I would tell him to fuck off. He is effectively washing his hands of all but the bare minimum of parental responsibilities. He wouldn’t be doing that if he gave a toss about keeping things normal for the children.

He can go to his mum’s for Christmas Day. Insist on it. Tell him he is to be out by 11 and can be home whenever, or never. He doesn’t get to dictate what is happening here.

The children are small enough to be told anything. Granny can be sick, daddy can have a headache or have to work. You don’t have to dance to this man’s tune or the tune his parents play any more.

You are not at all unreasonable. You should try your best to be calm and stay resolute. Have some stock phrases to stick to.
Tell him he can take the kids over for a couple of hours after youve had Christmas dinner. He does not get to exclude you from that with your children. If hes says it tradition remind him it is not as it is your youngests first Christmas so there has been no precident. If he argues you all previously went in the past, remind him he is changing things by excluding you from attending.

He is the one making changes, not you.
Try and think of all his arguments and think of a calm reason that he is wrong.
He can bribe the oldest, sure. But you can say to them your presents will still be there in an hour or so after you have eaten with mummy.

Stay calm. Don't let him see you are flustered. Also remember that his attitude will see him lose in the end.