to think wedding vows are a load of tosh?

I married in church 29 years ago. I meant my vows then and I try to live them now (though I didn’t promise to obey and would never have been willing to). We’re at the ‘in sickness’ part now; DH (who has also meant and lived his vows) is in hospital waiting for a heart bypass). If you think the C of E liturgy is tosh, don’t have it.

To call them 'tosh' is very disingenuous for the millions across the world who completely believe in them and have long lasting happy marriages.

As per every thread on marriage. The divorce rate is not an indication of marriage failure. It is the number of divorces in the year divided by the number of marriages. The reason that it is high and increasing is completely down to less people getting married. The actual number of marriages ending is at it's lowest since the 1970s.
So less people are marrying as threads like this show, but those that are marrying are less likely to end their marriage than over the last 45 years. This is because marriage is rarely a financial or societal requirement now so people are free to make the choice and plenty don't want to, probably for all the reasons given on here. But those that do are taking their vows very seriously and they do mean something to them by and large.
It's still generally an advantageous strategy if you are having children for all sorts of legal reasons, and when children are involved then maybe you aren't wanting 10 year relationships and moving on to new partners.

We just got married this year (second time for both of us). We eloped on the train, got married, had a few champagnes and some food and went home on the train. We picked what vows were included (in Scotland so one is a legal requirement) so it was basically just I do. But, we did write a wee thing to each other about how we met, why we had almost instant love and why we wanted to marry etc. it was sweet and funny and the registrar said it was the nicest speeches she'd ever heard at a wedding! I wanted to say how I felt about my husband without it being just vows.

But the traditional wedding vows don't promise to always feel a certain way. They promise to love, which is an action quite apart from any feeling. I would agree it would be ridiculous to promise to always feel love or be in love. I committed to loving my kids, even when they were driving me up the wall, or I felt I didn't always like them as teenagers. Its very hard to feel warm and fuzzy when faced with a teenage bedroom at its worst. In the same way my dh and I committed to love each other regardless of finances, illness or disagreements. I do think the vows are achievable provide both partners understand this and are prepared to work at it. After 40 years we still love each other, despite our differences and disagreements.

Just to add I'm not saying if you make the traditional vows you should never walk away because some things invalidate them anyway. For example no-one should put up with abuse, whether that's physical, emotional or financial, regardless of any vows. I would never advocate staying in this sort of situation. I'm just saying they can be achievable.

I refer you to the original post. Isn't that derogatory to those who do make and take their wedding vows seriously as a commitment to their relationship and each other?

Hear hear.

Unmarried couples are absolutely valid.

One thing though is that for some people getting married is a religious act and they would intend to stay married even if they were to end up getting beaten up. It is only quite recently that even the Catholic Church quietly acknowledges (knows it will happen) ,that sometimes people really feel they have no other option than to end the marriage.

I agree with you. And sometimes life can take such a hard turn, that you can’t even be honest.

I think it’s all wrong.

I do believe in love though. (But it’s temporary, like a song.)

You could insert a vow ' if you hit me, I'll leave '

It is perfectly possible to be married and not be financially protected- my mother has been married 5 times and never got any financial support- except the bare minimum for her children. She was definitely a lower earning spouse- the assumption marriage is hugely protective is deceptive- it gives you rights if your spouse dies, but so does a will.
Marriage is a very, very expensive way of getting the same protection as a will (£100-300 top whack), as opposed to the average cost of a wedding- around £15,000-£20,000.
If you have children you are entitled to child maintenance whether you are married or not, and getting spousal maintenance is extremely uncommon unless there are very small children involved and is usually tightly time limited.

I don't think I realised how bizarre your comment is until I read someone calling you out on it just now. When I initially responded I tried not to see your comment as bitter and nasty but now I re-read it, it really is nasty! It's like you don't acknowledge unmarried couples as being couples! There's no difference between buying and expensive staged event and just getting on with life as a couple! If I had a quid for everyone I've known in life who has been divorced or married more than once.
The whole reason that marriage is less popular and questioned more it's that people realise it's just a paid for booze up these days! Or it's something insecure partners sometimes push people to. It's easy to legally take care of each other without a wedding! Are you really pretending that marriages never end? Unmarried couples are exactly the same as married couples so don't be derogatory in future!

But they aren’t ‘the default ones’, they’re specific to a particular C of E liturgy. The ‘default ones’, legally speaking, are the shortest form of civil wedding, which only require you to declare you’re free to marry, and that you marry X. Nothing about health or duration.

Plenty of people who dress up and say all the right words are "doomed to fail". Plenty of people who "just live together" go the distance and care for one another until the bitter end.

Oh, you're talking about custom vows. I thought you were talking about the default ones: "In sickness and in health" "'til death do us part". A lot of people have trouble adhering to the standard ones let alone the custom ones.

I agree with PP; when you say vows, you mean them. Don't get married if you can't even stick to the basics.

I feel really sad that I’ve been married three times! TBH I never even wanted to get married … but they did. Probably because I didn’t 🙄 and none of them took the vows they made seriously. #1 physically attacked me within months of us getting married. #2 lied, cheated and was the beyond disloyal … he tried to turn my family against me & sought sole custody of our children. #3 said ‘what we have isn’t working for me anymore’ because I put boundaries in place to safeguard my children (his complete alcoholism was pretty carefully concealed until after we were married).

But there's other ways of legalising your connection such as civil partnership, quick Registry office thing and of course making sure you name each other as beneficiaries, share a mortgage etc. But let's be honest a lot of people just want the big fancy do really.

Any form of interaction between breeding age individuals has restrictions - and not just in humans. It's what has been most successful on an evolutionary basis for multiple species for millions of years.

I'm not going to get worked up about one part of the fairly recent contractual terms stated in one religious ceremony that includes a declaration of intent to not have sex with anybody else when in other times, it wasn't necessary to say it as the consequence would have been death. Quite progressive in that sense to suggest that a woman would agree to do as she was told than it going without being said that shagging another bloke or looking at her husband a bit funny would get her stoned to a pulp or her head chopped off, really.

But language evolves with context. I'd never have married someone I didn't trust implicitly never to ask me to do something unreasonable.

I didn't obey btw but only because the vicar laughed and said I'd never obeyed in my life and if it was included, the congregation would burst out laughing.

I get that but the obey in marriage vows doesn't mean that and didn't with it's origins, it's about slavery and restrictions in its origin.

The ‘point’ is economic protection, particularly for the lower-earning spouse.

I don't see the point of marriage anyway.
You need a big party and a ring to prove your love? Don't get it.

That's the point. He's not 'a hero husband taking charge' type of person. For example, if I were to wake up with him shaking me and ordering me to get up NOW, it could only be for something like the house is on fire and my natural instinct to say 'who the fuck do you think you're talking to like that?' or to expect him to explain himself (and apologise) would be set aside for obeying unquestionably.

It’s not the vows that are the problem, but the concept of marriage itself. The whole point of a formal, ritualised ceremony backed up by legal obligations was to keep people from doing what people naturally do.

The reason it was needed was because people couldn’t be trusted to take care of their financial obligations and the care of abandoned children, the sick, the elderly fell to the wider community.

Today we have a benefit system, and no stigma divorce, and women are better facilitated to support themselves financially through a robust educational system, legal protections etc.

Marriage isn’t needed in the way it once was. And the divorce statistics clearly show that feelings and intentions aren’t enough.

I think if it was well researched, we’d probably find that there is a subset of people suited to long term, monogamous commitment who thrive within marriage. But it would be better if we could avoid financially and emotionally wrecking people who aren’t suited to it.

They say to love and honour- there is no mention of honesty. You can love and honour someone without being honest.
You are writing your own vows-honesty is not mentioned in traditional vows, once the obey was dropped.
Honesty is very important, you are right but it is not the only important thing- it is not always kind to be honest.
I think you have misunderstood wedding vows.
Personally I have no real trust in traditional vows I have been with the same man since 1979 but we are not married.